breaking up – easier LD or CD?

[lunamea]

Something Alisz said on another thread and my personal circumstances at the moment got me thinking: is breaking up easier LD as CD?

It's kinda ironic that I am asking that question, because so far, I've always said that even an LD relationship deserves being ended CD (especially if the partners knew each other in person). Yet, I find myself wondering: if you are going to separate anyway, is it not preferable/less difficult to do it LD?

I'm asking because my return flight is scheduled 39 days from now and I had a serious fallout with my husband once again yesterday. I'm at a point where I doubt I can live with him again. I've been thinking of (at least temporarily) separating for a long time because our relationship's been rocky for over a year now, even before I left to study abroad (although that certainly didn't help.)
The first four months of my stay here were hell, with frequent fights and a lot of drama. I returned home for Christmas break to finally find out where we're going. We talked about everything and kinda made up, but it only lasted two months. We've been back to daily fighting for almost two months now and I just can't take it any longer. I know I frequently overreact and it's mostly little things, but they've been accumulating and I just don't think I can go on living like this.
For the past two months, I have always felt better before I talked to him (or when I didn't talk to him at all) then after talking to him and I know it's the same for him. I know I have a lot of issues with self-worth and jealousy, but he seriously doesn't make me feel like he cares enough about me anymore. I increasingly get the feeling that he just wants to do his own thing and sees everything I want for us as limiting him in some way.

He said yesterday that if things were as bad for him as they seem to be for me, he would've left me a long time ago. That kinda convinced me that I can't and should not put myself through this any longer. I'm barely functional, having cried and spent the better half of the day in bed yesterday; I can't eat, don't get any homework done and don't feel like doing anything at all. Even though how I'm feeling now is an all-time low, previous fights have left me similar to this, too. From how he's behaving, it even seems to me like he's pushing me in that direction, that he wants me to break up with him and/or is playing me for a fool.

So, I've really been thinking if it wouldn't be better to make that decision now because I'm pretty sure we're headed that way anyway after I return. That would give me time to focus on my studies, do my travelling and recover a little/get used to being without him before I go back and need to face him. I fear that if I don't draw that line now and go home undecided, I won't have the strength to leave him when we're CD and this constant fighting is slowly killing me…

[Caitlin2009]

I would do it in person if if were you, you know my feelings on this subject with you and your husband but if you wanna do this i guesse its better for the both of you. But its better you do it in person then where your at, i know your angry at each other but face to face is the proper way to do it.

[lunamea]

As I said, I think it's never going to happen in person. We've been there a few times, where I had already packed his things or my own stuff and I never went through with it. He said he won't initiate a break-up because things are still "okay" for him, but he wouldn't hold me back if I wanted to leave. That's another thing that makes me think he doesn't really care - I mean, how else can you say "if you want to leave, then leave, I'm not holding you here"? Sometimes I think he's just tagging along and will be fine with whatever I decide. That's not the kind of relationship I want.

I love him more than anything still and I don't want to live without him, but I fear there is no way to live with him and not go insane. Perhaps I can't cope with issues or I'm too much invested and emotionally instable, perhaps it is my fault (as he says, because in his mind, he didn't do anything wrong), but I can't have that pain in my life everyday.

What triggered the fight yesterday was another "little" thing, but as usual, it's a symptom of much bigger issues. If you've read my other posts, you know that my hb is a roofer, works physically everyday and is usually really exhausted when he gets home. This has been a cause of fights in the past because I worked in an office and wanted to go out and do stuff in the evenings and he was always too tired. Since I'm gone, he sometimes does go out with his friends on weekdays. I was pretty mad whenever something like that happened because I always felt like screaming "why couldn't you have gone with me when you knew how much I wanted to get out a little?" I could've picked a fight every time he was out because I always thought about that, but he said he just did it because he feels so lonely at home. I kinda understood that and let it go.

Yesterday, he told me that he wants to join the fitness club and work out for an hour everyday after work with his friend!!! That is just so ridiculous and hurtful on so many levels, I didn't even know how to respond. Not only did he never ask me if I wanted to come, but he works physically for 8.5 hours a day, damn it, why in all the world does he want to work out in the evenings? I know that he wants to build some muscles (which I'm very much against, because I hate muscular men, but he never cares about my opinion concerning his looks, anyway) and I would still kinda understand if he wanted to go work out on the weekends, but he wants to do it after a hard day's work, after which he was, just a few months ago, too tired to even take a walk in the park with me!! If that is not playing me for a fool, I don't know what is. On top of that, he wanted to save up for a car, but I don't think that's gonna happen with him spending 500 dollars or so a year on the fitness center! Plus, notice how he gets that idea (of going to work out) one month before I come home... in the past 8 months, the thought never entered his mind... What really gets to me, too, is that he promised we'd spend more time together when I get home (as we thought I wouldn't work anymore), but that's not going to happen either with him spending 1 hour daily in the fitness club, 1 hour of getting there, 9 hours at work and almost 2 hrs of getting there (same with calling, as when I am able to call, it is always evening over there)! It seems to me like he's just avoiding me and desperately wanting to do something that will piss me off. I just... have no words for him anymore. As ever, he thinks it's not a big deal at all and I'm just overreacting, controlling and selfish.

[Veiled_Dreamer]

Lunamea, I personally think that you had every right to study abroad. You and he discussed it, whether or not he told you the truth (by leading you to believe he was okay with it when he really wasn't) is NOT your fault. I have a personal example as well from a convo my SO and I had. I am considering pursuing professional dance as a career. While I probably couldn't make it in New York because of my background, and the West Coast scene would be better because it suits my needs more and my lover lives in Cali, I have to do something I won't regret. If I had a legit chance on Broadway, and I skipped out on it to go be with my SO because he "made" me, I think I would resent him. It's not as much a problem because I really can't consider New York, but he told me to do what I need to. I can imagine your position: what if I did go to New York and successfully audition for a company, but then my SO told me he had actually wanted me to skip out on Broadway to be with him? I would be so hurt: now I'm stuck across the country with my dream job and my SO, who feels I have betrayed him and no longer wants to work towards "us." I understand how you feel now. It would be different if he had told you he didn't want you to go in the first place. Even then, loving someone is letting them be themselves, and "you" is a person who wants to study abroad to pursue and fulfill your dreams for yourself. Is LDR hard? Of course it is. But would a CD relationship, where your partner was the reason you would never get to chase your dream... how would that go?

It does seem like he's doing a lot of things to "get back" at you for what was a mutual decision. He's ignoring your preference in a man's physical appearance, he's asking to talk less, he's fighting over silly things. Maybe he's trying to make this be a means to an end, with or without realizing it. I think you have to recognize the point when your attempts at a healthy relationship are no longer desired or reciprocated. I would have a chat CD about this (if possible) and then, if he's not willing to change, leave. It's not fair to you to be strung along by a man who doesn't care about you. To me, that's what it seems like, though I'd of course try to have one last discussion before jumping the gun. If he doesn't care if it ends, does he care if it continues? No, it doesn't make sense.

Maybe another option would be to try to talk this out LDR and then if it doesn't go well, I hate to say it, take a break until you can discuss this CD. It's not so much a break in my opinion as it would be being separated for a while and then seeing if it works better CD. In my opinion, the LDR-ness of you guys is just one problem among many. =/

[Bluestars]

Veiled_Dreamer, you put it very nicely. I can understand why you are upset Lunamea. It seems strange that he is acting like this all of a sudden. I guess he could honestly just be lonely, but it sounds like there is more to it. I guess the question is whether you want to get the problem solved right away or put it off until you get back. Would you be able to continue your studies without dealing with this problem? If it is going to take such a toll on you that you cannot function, then it would probably be best to go ahead and try discussing the problem.

It sounds like you guys need to have a serious talk. Hopefully he will respond. As for the comment, "if you want to leave, then leave, I'm not holding you here." I can see both sides to that only because that sounds like something I would possibly say. I wouldn't really mean that I want the person to leave, but it would be more of a test (which is bad!). I want someone to be with me because they want to, not because they feel obligated to. He might have been doing that....but maybe not.

[Lumos]

He said he won't initiate a break-up because things are still "okay" for him, but he wouldn't hold me back if I wanted to leave. That's another thing that makes me think he doesn't really care - I mean, how else can you say "if you want to leave, then leave, I'm not holding you here"?

I know this is just a small part of a bigger issue, but I can see this as just being a matter of pride. Instead of interpreting it as him not caring whether or not you're there, it could be more like "If you don't want to be with me, I won't force you to stay." I could see myself saying something similar, not because I don't love my SO, but because I want him to want to be with me and not feel like he's obligated to.

[agentholli]

i am so sorry! You know, I have been divorced. I was married almost 10 years...and all those things you talk about make me so sad, because I remember feeling that way. I think that no one wants to be the one who "breaks" the marriage, so they say things like i wouldn't hold you back if you leave, and stuff because they don't want to take the blame...makes sense? Probably not..i am not all with it right now.

I just want to say that you can't let yourself go. You know how you feel, you know how he makes you feel. You need to do it for you. I didn't do it for me for sooo long and litearly, you die inside. I was not the same girl. I was dead inside. I haven't been happier in my adult life since I finally left my ex husband. I am me again and it feels so wonderful. Divorce is not easy..its hard. Having children makes it harder.

I like the idea of doing it now, before you go there, because I understand what its like to know what you want. and not have the guts to do it...but then I also think he deserves to see you when it breaks up.

I wish you the best of luck! I am sorry to hear about all your heartache.

[Mio]

I agree with what people said about letting the other one go because you don't want your partner to stay with you for another reason but love. I believe so, and I told my SO that in different times, but he never liked it when I said it, he felt that I didn't love him by that comment. You've been having a lot of issues and for a long time, but in order for the relationship to work, both of you have to work on it together. You know how you feel, and I'm sure you'll be able to decide what's better for your own being, but think it over, never make a decision in an irrational state.

[lunamea]

Thanks for your thoughtful comments, guys!!

Well, there's even more underlying issues than I've been able to get into (for brevity's sake.) I don't know if it will make more sense to you if I tell you, but another fact of our relationship is that, when I met him, he didn't speak German (my mother tongue and Austria's official language) very well, so he needed my help with a lot of things etc. Then he couldn't work because of visa issues and we had moved to the city I study in, so he didn't have any friends. I knew that this was hard on him and in retrospect, it was really not a good thing altogether. We were together almost 24/7 for the first two years of our marriage, because first, I only studied and then I worked part-time.

So, I think his current behavior (which started even before I left, but that coincided with him making more friends at work etc.) is also partly a getting back at me for being the primary breadwinner for years and him not being able to go out and do stuff with friends etc. On my side, I loved being with him a lot and got so used to it that it's now hard for me to "share" him with his friends. I know this and I know that I might not react like every other woman just because we were together so much the first two years of our marriage. For the last year of our marriage (before I left), we both worked and I studied on top of it, which was very stressful for me and also very painful because I only got to see him less than an hour a day.

Now, I finally thought things were looking up because we would have more time for each other when I don't work and he goes and pushes me away. I think it all has to do with him wanting to turn the tables on me and thinking he can do anything he want now that he earns his own money and speaks the language well and doesn't need my help anymore. Put the "holding a grudge because of the study abroad thing" on top of that and it might explain the current mess. It's all very complicated. I do recognize that he has a right to spend time with his friends and I need to accept that, but he's treating his friends whom he has known for 1 year way better than me (not caring about staying up later on weekdays, meeting whenever they want to, planning vacation time with them first and then saying "we'll see if I have vacation left" so the two of us can go somewhere, doing stuff with them when he's too tired to do something with me...).

I might be over-the-top clingy at times, but he surely is too hell-bent on having it his way and going against anything I suggest. I guess part of it is also this kind of "macho" thing, because more often than I care to remember, I've heard "it's my business what I do with my body/my money/my time etc.". He doesn't even try to find a balance between "him" and "us" and that makes me wonder why he is with me at all. If I always want to do things my way, I don't get married, for crying out loud.
So, yeah, I think the LDR/study abroad thing just intensified issues that have been building all along (mostly without me knowing it, because I didn't know that he felt so "dominated" at the time I was working and paying for everything). Looking back on it now, I guess it must've really hurt his self-esteem or whatever and he's kind of trying to "emancipate" himself now. I guess that's why I always hear that I'm controlling and up in his business...

Would you be able to continue your studies without dealing with this problem? If it is going to take such a toll on you that you cannot function, then it would probably be best to go ahead and try discussing the problem.

Well, I don't really have a choice but to put this aside and concentrate on my studies - there's only three weeks of the semester left and the next two weeks a lot of papers are due and then there's finals. That's why I haven't called him today. I told him I wasn't going to contact him again yesterday and, of course, he didn't contact me today, either (he is certainly not going to make the first step - we've done this once before and I finally caved in after a week of silence). Talking to him will just make everything worse, because we're going to argue again and I will feel even more shitty. The way it is, I'm just very down and desperate and don't see any way but to break up, but at least I am alone with my thoughts (except for you guys and my mom ) and don't have to take hurtful things from him.

As for the comment, "if you want to leave, then leave, I'm not holding you here." I can see both sides to that only because that sounds like something I would possibly say. I wouldn't really mean that I want the person to leave, but it would be more of a test (which is bad!). I want someone to be with me because they want to, not because they feel obligated to. He might have been doing that....but maybe not.

I know this is just a small part of a bigger issue, but I can see this as just being a matter of pride. Instead of interpreting it as him not caring whether or not you're there, it could be more like "If you don't want to be with me, I won't force you to stay." I could see myself saying something similar, not because I don't love my SO, but because I want him to want to be with me and not feel like he's obligated to.

Well, I certainly hope you are right there. One time, when I had already packed his stuff (our former apartment was in my name), he did accept it but then he started asking if we were going to keep meeting, so that we might get together after a while, which made me stay then. I don't know how he'd react if I really went through with it.

Another idea I had is that I could move to my parents again after I return and we would only meet up on the weekends or so, more like dating and less like living together. I don't want to completely break off contact, but if he continues to act that way, living with him is not going to work. I'm not going to beg him or force him to spend time with me and I don't want to constantly compare myself to his friends. Living with my family again (in a town 1.5 hours away) would give us both space and him an opportunity to get his priorities straight.

[aggie]

Oh my, I am so sorry to hear that... seems like April'10 isn't the greatest month at all... not for us anyway. I had absolutely no idea things were going this way... *hugs*
I read the whole thread and while at the start I was trying to see his point of view (which considering ours and our SO's similarities wasn't that difficult at all) and was going to explain it all to you the way T explained things to me, but then something put me off....
"planning vacation time with them first and then saying "we'll see if I have vacation left" so the two of us can go somewhere"
i didn't think it was right.

But apart from this little thing, I know we both have the special skill to overthink, overanalyse, exaggerate and be very very clingy at times. So while it is easier to break up being in LD, because you don't see each other and you can just focus on the things you have to do here and now, without the places you two used to go to etc, I would still suggest you to do it CD. I know it's majorly difficult to be the one walking out, but the relationship and the SO deserve it and all the respect that comes with it. All in all, you were married and were happy for some time, so there's some memories that you should be grateful for.

However, i think the best you can do at the moment (instead of saying, i won't contact you again, just tell him to have a break and decide on a meeting when you get back). That way, you will be able to focus on what you need to do, will sort things out in your head about what you want, what can you sacrifise and what can you work on and what you just are not able to get over. If you don't stay in touch for the next 3 (or 5?) weeks, the emotions will fade away, you will discover yourself and your needs (without being influenced by him) and that way, when it comes to the CD talk, you will be set in your decision already. Sometimes it takes time, sometimes it just pops into youre head and youre sure about what you want (well... with some doubts after the break-up).

I can't recall any information about what your life looked like when you two lived together, but to defend him and ease your mind (this is if you are able to believe in things that T was trying to explain to me, i did... it helped a little)... he may really find it horribly difficult to be in a LDR, remember he is a man, and probably 1000 times emotional than we are, he needs to hold you and hug you and just have you around, not in a headphone or on a screen. to not think about it he may go out, with lots and lots and lots of different people and the gym.... well, guess, even though I never mentioned anything to T about his body (hate muscular men too!), when i walked into his room last time he had a list of exercises he has to do every day on the wall. This may be just to keep himself busy and make him feel better about himself (more self confident perhaps, which i would love). Did he say he will continue attending the gym after you get back? Also, it may be, he didn't ask you to join... I know T would never do, because he'd expect ME to ask if i wanted to... some men need the reassurance as well, but not in words 'i love you', but in actions, to follow him and show him that you enjoy doing things with him. still. T never asked me to come watch him play football (once, ages ago, he said something that all girlfriends come and watch)... ever since, i was just turning up at the game, watching him... and whenever i asked 'do you want me to come' he'd say 'i dont care'... but i know he did. Also, you need to know, which you probably do, but Im gonna tell you again anyway, guys are way more about physical contact than girls. Which is why we are able to sacrifice a crazy night out to stay online and talk to our SO, most of the time they will choose to go out. Because people that are 'here & now' are gonna take his mind off the fact that he's hurting and missing you.

As for 'letting you go', which we absolutely hate, it is true what everyone else said... this shows he respects your independence and wants YOU to be happy and make the choices on your own. But that's why i think that if you have a break for the next few weeks, he may realise that letting you go could be the hardest thing in his life.

I have my fingers crossed for you, hope you can clear your mind soon and make the right decision. And whatever happens, it's for your best and we will be here for you.
*hugs*

[Caitlin2009]

Ok what the hell happened to my post??? i posted it before and now its gone, oh well imma re post it and add a few things while im at it:





I'm sorry but im on his side with this, not yours. You are being very selfish, controlling and only thinking of yourself, and honestly i feel like your hiding something i feel like theres more to the story that your not telling us. Your married and you purposely packed up and left, when it comes to any relationship especially marriage there is no just YOU anymore and you should be looking out for what your partner also wants, You sit here all upset because your marriage is over, but yet your the one that made the decision to go abroad and study, that alone is the most selfish thing ive ever seen anybody do, why the hell couldnt you go to a college near you or a few towns away from you??? That makes no sense what so ever! Most of us who are in LDR's would give our right arm to be with the ones we love right now, and would pack up and move in a heartbeat with them if we could, but we cant due to things beyond our control! But you purposely put yourself in that position and for what? a better job in the future which you could have gotton if you went to school maybe a few hours away from you, You have nobody to blame but yourself with this honestly, im not gonna sit here and support you when i'm on his side with this. You expect him to sit around and wait for you and not live his life when your all the way in another country, he doesnt need your permission to do anything since hey your not around so,yeah you are being controlling and highly selfish for him to just sit around at home and wait for you to call or something. And i dont believe for a second that he decided you should go, i think you made that decision on your own and said you were going with or without his blessing. I'm sorry but you are being selfish, everything you did leading up to this point has been selfish. and hell you cant get mad at me because you wanted peoples opinions, so im giving you mine. if you dont like it im sorry but hey thats just how i see it.

[garnet]

I was wondering what happened to Caitlin's post too. I hope it isn't censorship at work? The OP did come asking for opinions...

[MadMolly]

I think just because you are with someone, it doesn't mean you have to spend your entire life with them for the rest of your life. Studying abroad is an INCREDIBLE opportunity and if you are in love with someone and they love you too, they should be happy for you to go and experience something like that, and not mope around being angry.

[garnet]

When you get married you should sort of lose the "look out for #1" thing imo. I would not be pleased if my husband decided to leave for a year. If you're dating, then sure, take the opportunity. But marriage should change things, at least from my perspective. I would never take anything that came up, no matter how wonderful it was, unless it meant more to me than my spouse. There is a limit to being happy for your partner and supporting everything they do.

[Caitlin2009]

I think just because you are with someone, it doesn't mean you have to spend your entire life with them for the rest of your life. Studying abroad is an INCREDIBLE opportunity and if you are in love with someone and they love you too, they should be happy for you to go and experience something like that, and not mope around being angry.

but she was already married!!! and i agree its a great opportunity but why not take them along so they can experiance it with you? thats what im getting at as well, there is no just YOU in marriage anymore or in a relationship, in moving anywhere especially if your already in the same household its 50/50 and you have to compromise, with this she just up and left. I dont believe for a second he was all for it. It's selfish to me because you dont make any big decision like that without at least talking it over with your partner first in full detail. I mean if she was single and found someone in the US while studying that i would understand, this situation i dont.