Again, and I need advice

[Haley53]

Now wait a minute everyone I agree its not healthy that she attempts suicide over things we don't see as a big deal its definatly not healthy but she is getting help for this fact that is a good thing. And yes with seeing posts like this the relationship can seem toxic or whatever, but if its just her over reaction (don't mean that in a mean way but it kinda is) to him cutting down a visit this is something that can be worked out. I mean think about it, if she does take advice to break this off and starts dating again who is to say it won't still happen right? Yes he needs to do a bit better on maybe not making promises he can't keep but she needs to work on keeping her cool when something does come up too.

I don't believe anyone's saying that. This isn't the only post in which this has happened/been mentioned. This problem has been reoccurring since the beginning of the year, more or less. They've both admitted to being stubborn-to-change types. That is why people see this relationship as not going anywhere, because her complaint in every post has been HBB's meaningless apologies; he says he's sorry but then does the same thing over again (this one had a valid reason, but the last time he cancelled, it was because his father said so, as I recall). I simply wanted to point out that no one is saying her getting help is a bad thing. I think we're all simply not sure where to go from here because the advice is rarely internalised and this problem crops up every other month if not every month. It's not that no one cares or even that everyone is absolving Jezah of her responsibility. It's more or less responding to the fact that this has been an ongoing issue for months and has not made any improvement, and she's constantly asking us for help on getting through to HBB who doesn't seem to want to listen. In the beginning, most posts weren't "this is toxic and you should break up." They've evolved into being what they are. I simply wanted to defend the "veteran" people on this thread because they've actually followed this situation a lot longer than some of the others.

[Malaga]

I think some things you just have to live through yourself before you can reach the point when you realise whether it's good or bad for you. You have every right to pursuit your happiness the way you think is best and I hope it works.

I know you want to stay with him and make it work. My last advice for this is to ease up on BBC dramas a bit. They can make you fall in love with the idea of romance instead of a person the way they are. HBB won't ever become Mr Darcy - none of the guys do. They're not supposed to. It's wonderful when he buys you thoughtful presents, but those tokens of romance are meant to come as sugar on the top. You can't live off sugar, you need something more nutritious. Meaning you have to work on the basics. You know that too.

I suggest you guys try to read and discuss together some of those self-help books for couples as a sort of couples therapy you can do over distance. Check Amazon, there are lots of insightful books there. I'm sure they could be very helpful for your communication and acceptance if you both decide to try.

I wish you luck. I hope you find happiness and the peace of mind you need.

[MaggieS]

I am tired of being attacked like MaggieS and LittleVari made me feel, it just is so unhelpful. I know you think you are doing the whole "tough love" thing and so I don't hold it against you personally, but for me its just, well...unhelpful. I get suicide would have been horrible to do to HBB, now. At the time, I was angry, hurt, hopeless...if its a negative awful emotion I felt it. I wasn't really thinking much further than ending the pain and being dead honestly, certaintly wasn't having deep forethought as to the long term effects of my death on my loved ones. I too have had a friend kill himself, so that card doesn't make you somehow allowed to be that much harsher on those who try. Depression is a disorder, not a lifestyle choice.
- Jezah

One, I'm not attacking you. I'm just not sugarcoating it. Two, I reiterate: if you wanted to be dead, you wouldn't have done it while on a call. You would have signed off and done it. Three: I had my step-mother OD, it does give me permission to want to smack you for considering it or playing around with it at all. Four: Depression is a lifestyle choice, believe what you will. Clincal, medical, whatever the fuck-ical depression runs in my family, doctors have prescribed everyone in my family drugs. I made a lifestyle choice and am a generally happy, average person without drugs.

Good luck.

[Kiyama]

Depression is a lifestyle choice, believe what you will. Clincal, medical, whatever the fuck-ical depression runs in my family, doctors have prescribed everyone in my family drugs. I made a lifestyle choice and am a generally happy, average person without drugs.

Good for you you aren't depressed and HAVE a choice. Sorry but such comments make me really sick. You've got zero idea what you're talking about.

[LittleVari]

I don't believe anyone's saying that. This isn't the only post in which this has happened/been mentioned. This problem has been reoccurring since the beginning of the year, more or less. They've both admitted to being stubborn-to-change types. That is why people see this relationship as not going anywhere, because her complaint in every post has been HBB's meaningless apologies; he says he's sorry but then does the same thing over again (this one had a valid reason, but the last time he cancelled, it was because his father said so, as I recall). I simply wanted to point out that no one is saying her getting help is a bad thing. I think we're all simply not sure where to go from here because the advice is rarely internalised and this problem crops up every other month if not every month. It's not that no one cares or even that everyone is absolving Jezah of her responsibility. It's more or less responding to the fact that this has been an ongoing issue for months and has not made any improvement, and she's constantly asking us for help on getting through to HBB who doesn't seem to want to listen. In the beginning, most posts weren't "this is toxic and you should break up." They've evolved into being what they are. I simply wanted to defend the "veteran" people on this thread because they've actually followed this situation a lot longer than some of the others.

I don't post enough to be a veteran, but I've followed her posts since I got here and went back and read stuff from before I was here. Girl strikes a chord with me, because but for the grace of god... I guess that's why I get so frustrated with her. I see so much of myself in her, I see her mistakes, I see how she's sabotaging herself and how she refuses to take responsibility for her mental health, and it frustrates me that I get her but can't find a way to have her get herself.

In her SO's defense: everything we hear is one-sided. Is he a flake? Probably. But I think when you consider the source there's no way to know if he's as bad as she says he is. Look how she reacts to honest, straightforward feedback here. Now granted, some people were harsh, and some people stepped over the line a bit. But no one ever meant to make her feel unwelcome. And there were just as many who were completely kind. And most importantly, even those of us who have been hard on her have meant well. But she sees everything as an attack - if we don't affirm her and if we hold her responsible for her choices, she sees it as an attack disregards EVERYTHING WE SAY. She's leaving LFAD - a great source of support filled with people willing to help her - because she's felt judged and attacked. And now I'm supposed to believe all her relationship issues are solely the fault of her SO?

And look at it this way: to us she says: my boyfriend broke his promise to visit for as long as he said he would. To his friends he might be saying: I told my girlfriend I couldn't visit for as long as I said I would and she tried to kill herself while Skyping with me. Is it any wonder his friends and family (particularly his father) don't like that he's in this relationship? If he came here and posted that and we didn't know Jezah, what would we all advise him to do?? And that Jezah can't understand how her instability and need for drama pushes people away, and that she refuses to take any responsibility for the state of her relationship speaks to her distorted view of the world.

That's why I focus on her. She's not a reliable witness and whatever her SO is or is not doing is beside the point. She's going to have these problems in every relationship until she straightens her head.

So I'm saying she should break up with him. Not because he's a horrible boyfriend (I have no idea if he is or isn't), but because she needs to seriously focus on herself and learn to make herself happy. Or as I said in another post, she needs to be brave enough to rescue herself and stop looking for a perfect white knight to do it for her.

[LittleVari]

One, I'm not attacking you. I'm just not sugarcoating it. Two, I reiterate: if you wanted to be dead, you wouldn't have done it while on a call. You would have signed off and done it. Three: I had my step-mother OD, it does give me permission to want to smack you for considering it or playing around with it at all. Four: Depression is a lifestyle choice, believe what you will. Clincal, medical, whatever the fuck-ical depression runs in my family, doctors have prescribed everyone in my family drugs. I made a lifestyle choice and am a generally happy, average person without drugs.

Good luck.

If you were able to overcome depression as a lifestyle choice, you didn't have depression.

[Haley53]

I don't post enough to be a veteran, but I've followed her posts since I got here and went back and read stuff from before I was here. Girl strikes a chord with me, because but for the grace of god... I guess that's why I get so frustrated with her. I see so much of myself in her, I see her mistakes, I see how she's sabotaging herself and how she refuses to take responsibility for her mental health, and it frustrates me that I get her but can't find a way to have her get herself.

In her SO's defense: everything we hear is one-sided. Is he a flake? Probably. But I think when you consider the source there's no way to know if he's as bad as she says he is. Look how she reacts to honest, straightforward feedback here. Now granted, some people were harsh, and some people stepped over the line a bit. But no one ever meant to make her feel unwelcome. And there were just as many who were completely kind. And most importantly, even those of us who have been hard on her have meant well. But she sees everything as an attack - if we don't affirm her and if we hold her responsible for her choices, she sees it as an attack disregards EVERYTHING WE SAY. She's leaving LFAD - a great source of support filled with people willing to help her - because she's felt judged and attacked. And now I'm supposed to believe all her relationship issues are solely the fault of her SO?

And look at it this way: to us she says: my boyfriend broke his promise to visit for as long as he said he would. To his friends he might be saying: I told my girlfriend I couldn't visit for as long as I said I would and she tried to kill herself while Skyping with me. Is it any wonder his friends and family (particularly his father) don't like that he's in this relationship? If he came here and posted that and we didn't know Jezah, what would we all advise him to do?? And that Jezah can't understand how her instability and need for drama pushes people away, and that she refuses to take any responsibility for the state of her relationship speaks to her distorted view of the world.

That's why I focus on her. She's not a reliable witness and whatever her SO is or is not doing is beside the point. She's going to have these problems in every relationship until she straightens her head.

So I'm saying she should break up with him. Not because he's a horrible boyfriend (I have no idea if he is or isn't), but because she needs to seriously focus on herself and learn to make herself happy. Or as I said in another post, she needs to be brave enough to rescue herself and stop looking for a perfect white knight to do it for her.

I said this in my post:

It's not that no one cares or even that everyone is absolving Jezah of her responsibility.

No one's saying she doesn't have a part in this. But it usually takes two.

ETA: I'll stay out of the depression bit for the most part, but actual clinical depression is not as common as it is commonly diagnosed. That's why drugs only work for about a third of the people that they're prescribed to and that's not accounting for a placebo effect. Depression is not a lifestyle choice, no, but choosing to get better can become one. No one chooses to be depressed, but CBT can do a lot more for a lot more people than drug therapy, especially used in conjunction with drug therapy, primarily because a lot of depression boils down to thought and thought patterns. For some people, yes, it's chemical. For a lot more, it has to do with the way they think and perceive and that is what a combination of CBT and drug therapy (with the intention of weaning off the drugs) can help with. I am not speculating anything about the OP, simply wanted to play devil's advocate and say that people can overcome depression. It does not mean they did not struggle with depression or have it at one point.

I was diagnosed with clinical depression and then as Bipolar, a diagnosis that has been retracted now some years later. There is definitely a lack of syndromic integrity in the doctors who claim you have this or that, but what people forget is that mental illness does not fit into a box. Even people who have late onset Schizophrenia can go into remission. That doesn't mean they did not at one point have Schizophrenia or experience a psychotic episode. Prognosis is as personal as the experience of the mental illness itself. I don't think it's fair to play the "I'm still depressed so you obviously don't struggle with depression and never did" game, is all I will say. That's victim playing and I refuse to discount anyone's experience as "not real" because they got better. That's the whole point of therapy and making life changes.

[MaggieS]

Little Vari and Kiyama,

Um, actually, I was depressed. I was diagnosed, doctors attempted treatment with a bunch of pills, all of that b.s. I decided that I didn't like where I was, that I didn't like the idea that I had to take pills, and I chose to fight my depression on a daily basis. When I say it's a lifestyle choice, I don't mean it's something that just vanishes, I mean it's something you have to contend with, but it is something you can lick with sheer willpower. It's like alcoholism, something people lean on when they don't want or know how to stand on their own two feet.

[Jezah]

I really do not want to leave LFAD, that I will say. Last night though I logged on and read all the posts made since I was here last and it all made me feel so exhausted. I felt like nothing I could say about anything would change the well held opinions everyone here seems to have. Case in point.

You want people to coddle you and talk sweetly and never ever hurt your feelings. Well guess what, you can't control how people respond to your posts anymore than you can control how your SO acts. STOP TRYING TO CONTROL PEOPLE. STOP EXPECTING PEOPLE RESPOND THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO.

That was said to me when in my very last post I said

I know others have genuinely tried to be helpful and feel me and HBB are just doomed, and you have every right to that opinion since maybe if I was outside looking in I would feel the same.

Which was me very clearly saying I wasn't "trying to control people and expecting them to respond the way I want them to". I also again, clearly said SEVERAL times "I feel...." and then explained. I never said "You all are attacking me, being mean and not trying to help!" No, I said "I feel like I am being attacked". I took responsibility for the fact that it was simply how I felt and not necessarily what was happening. I know myself pretty well by now and know I feel attacked or unwelcome sometimes when thats not what is really going on, its a 'persecution complex' I guess. However I did FEEL quite judged and like a lot of people were labeling me and HBB's relationship in a way that upset me. Again, maybe not what happened maybe you weren't but it is how I FELT.

MaggieS, I really don't want to touch your response with a 10 foot pole except to link you to an image. https://www.mayoclinic.com/images/im...depression.jpg

Maybe you are superhuman and can change your brain chemistry with simple positive thinking, but I am a mere human and can't. I have had depression in varying severity since I was 12, never been free of it but have been better on those "pills" you so loathe. Unfortunately right now I am undergoing ECT so my own psychiatrist won't prescribe me antidepressants because he wants to see how that works. So I am pill free, struggling severely with being so flipping depressed sometimes that I stare off into space for hours crying. So please don't hold me to your standard that says being depressed is just a "way of thinking", nobody would want to be like this and I don't chose it.

[Jezah]

I am willing to admit here, that since my depression is so uncontrolled and untreated right now I may not be exactly myself. Just throwing that out there

[ST25]

I've been following this thread and honestly...I don't know what else people can tell you. What do you WANT them to say? That everything's going to be okay, he'll stop being a jerk at times, it'll go away soon enough? I don't think so.

And just so you know, if you're in a relationship where it's causing you to try and commit SUICIDE to get your point across, it's at a threshold where it's extremely unhealthy. Extremely. And where you need to nip it in the bud and either do something to compromise with his behavior or just leave him if it's driving you up the wall. No moment of happiness with him would be worth all the childishness and misery that the both of you would enter a few times a month if it hurts you a lot. It's not worth it. It's the way he is unless he grows up. So I don't know what else people can say to make this situation better and you seem to disregard that advice. You asked the question - they provided the answers so don't be upset with the veterans when they devoted their time to give you really wise responses and not give the answer YOU want to hear.

Also, I might want to add that you could be spending a lot more time with sorting yourself out rather than be in a relationship right now.

[Haley53]

Maybe you are superhuman and can change your brain chemistry with simple positive thinking, but I am a mere human and can't. I have had depression in varying severity since I was 12, never been free of it but have been better on those "pills" you so loathe. Unfortunately right now I am undergoing ECT so my own psychiatrist won't prescribe me antidepressants because he wants to see how that works. So I am pill free, struggling severely with being so flipping depressed sometimes that I stare off into space for hours crying. So please don't hold me to your standard that says being depressed is just a "way of thinking", nobody would want to be like this and I don't chose it.

To build on this, I think people are thinking too black and white here. Depression is neither a way of thinking for all people nor a chemical imbalance, as shown in the photo you linked, for all people. It is very, very dependent and it has nothing to do with being superhuman or not. There's a lot of factors that go into depression, both biological and environmental, and the prognosis is different for everyone. For a lot of people, depression can be overcome through a combination of drug and talk therapy. For another group of people, drugs help more than talk therapy. For another group entirely, it's hard to pinpoint the one thing that will work because in a lot of cases, doctors and psychiatrists do not know what is causing the depression. There's debate even about the chemicals it comes down to.

I think the better way to look at it is that depression is different for everyone and everyone will have a different prognosis based on a variety of factors. There is only so much empirical evidence pointing towards what will help for a disorder not even all experts agree upon. Like I said, I'm not lumping anyone into one group or another. I'm simply saying I don't think people should be so black and white about something even empirical evidence disagrees over.

And Jezah, again, do what you need to do for you, whether that's leave the community or stick around. It's important to take care of yourself during this time. You could also consider limiting your contact here to people you desire to be in contact with (PMs or privacy settings on blogs). That's another option for the people here you do feel support you that's a compromise between staying or going.

[MaggieS]

MaggieS, I really don't want to touch your response with a 10 foot pole except to link you to an image. https://www.mayoclinic.com/images/im...depression.jpg

Maybe you are superhuman and can change your brain chemistry with simple positive thinking, but I am a mere human and can't. I have had depression in varying severity since I was 12, never been free of it but have been better on those "pills" you so loathe. Unfortunately right now I am undergoing ECT so my own psychiatrist won't prescribe me antidepressants because he wants to see how that works. So I am pill free, struggling severely with being so flipping depressed sometimes that I stare off into space for hours crying. So please don't hold me to your standard that says being depressed is just a "way of thinking", nobody would want to be like this and I don't chose it.

Thought you weren't going to touch it with a ten foot pole? Heh, I kid, I kid. I have a million more arguments as to why what you're saying is more proof of my point, but you haven't listened to anything the smart people have said so far, clearly you won't listen to me, so I'm not arguing with a wall.

Best of luck, hope you figure yourself out, please don't kill yourself.

[jleec24]

Serotonin! Clinical depression is the lack of a neurotransmitter called Serotonin. But like Eclaire said, different people respond to different treatment.

But I will make a point that with whatever treatment they are on the path to take, it takes a lot of self-will. You have to want it to go away and you have to be willing to make it go away, sometimes and in ways by yourself. MaggieS does have a point, when I was depressed I reached a point where I looked around me and realized I was a MESS. My entire life was just a mess. I was tired of hurting and I was tired of hurting other people.

I'm worried that Jezah, instead of being whole-heartedly focused on getting better, you use these little attempts and opportunities to get to your SO for nothing more than proving a point or reminding him how small of a decision or action can affect you. It happens. Sometimes with depression comes a little bit of self-pity and the want to prove a point. I'm not saying that in a mean or a disregarding way, you might not completely understand it now but the point is - it happens. If you don't want to give up on HBB for the sake of you getting better, then okay but you cannot have the mindset where things must go your way or he must walk around eggshells around you because of a clinical disorder. You are not your disorder. You are so much bigger and so much stronger than this. If you don't want to give up on him then please, at least take some of this advice yeah?

When you are feeling like you are in one of those situations where you can do something rash because of something that happened with your SO, remove yourself from the situation and do something that will exert the negative energy that you have. Just tell HBB to give you a few minutes and go out and go for a walk and whilst you are on your walk, clear your head so that when you approach whatever situation HBB has brought to you, you approach it with a clear mind and a mature attitude. Walking releases endorphin's so that you feel a little bit better, it's a great opportunity to clear your head and think to yourself a little bit and rationalize like an adult and then go back to HBB without the pent-up energy you would get when you first discover some bad news.

Sometimes writing helps but when you do write make sure you aren't taking what you've written down and then end up saying that to your SO later out on a wim because a little bit of irrationality came over you. Other things I suggest doing is just taking your mind off it. What helps me is a good tv series, usually a light-hearted comedy but maybe you'd prefer a good book. Or you could take a bath followed by a nap. Whatever it is, just remove yourself from the situation for long enough that you can approach it maturely.

I commend you for going to therapy like you do but do remember, you yourself have to be and feel bigger than the disorder for you to kick it. Just a find a way to say "enough is enough" and just find every possible way to work on yourself and your own mind.

If you really want something, you will find a way. If you don't, you will find an excuse.

[Anna N' Luc]

So I don't know if the OP is still postin/looking at any more responses but opne thing I want to bring up that really hit me was that your SO finds out that you are feeling like this by reading your posts on a forum, this is something that you need to discuss with him. It seems really unfair that he finds out that you feel like this by seeing you discussing it with almost complete strangers. I also partly agree with MaggieS, but I do think that everyone is different. When I was diagnosed with epilepsy, I got very depressed. I never tried to kill myself or even considered it but it was a hofrrible time in my life. After being like that for a while I started thinking to myself "you know what, there are so many people who have it so much worse than I do, harden the f*** up girl and deal with it" Now I'm not saying that this is what you should do or even suggesting that that is how your depression works, I'm just saying that MaggieS isn't totally wrong.