She is hiding and keeping secrets

[dummy56]

Miramaid: I wasn't always like this. My problem started maybe a few weeks ago. That was when she started acting differently and that's when I noticed she was still on and stuff. You are absolutely right that if she wanted to cheat she will cheat. I know I am doing everything wrong here. What I am trying to get here is to improve our relationship. I know I have insecurities and I will work on that. But now it's me trying to do something for her. If there are feelings wouldn't I be doing something better for her by behaving and such? Also, this whole thing about what will I do if this or that, well I am here for advice. I ask what I should do because I can control what I do. I cannot control what she does. So yes, when I ask for what I can do I am focusing on me, because I want to know what I can do for her. I know I may seem like the worst person here and I probably am but at least I'm trying to do something constructive. Sure it may not seem like it, but there's nothing more I want than to fix the damage that I have caused. It may seem pointless to everyone else, but if she is still talking to me and stuff I believe there is a way, and by God I will find that way and appreciate any guidance in finding that way from you more experienced people.

Miramaid: I think it was you that mentioned your bf would interrogate you and annoy the hell out of you. Yet, you guys are still together. That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to stay with her and to make things better.

[ChibiFelicia]

ChibiFelicia: Yes, many people have mentioned that I should have this talk with her. I will have this talk with her. But it is interesting that you say I should stop spying. Well it's really not that interesting, but the thing is, I stop spying then I will never really know what's going on and hell she may be doing the worst things. I mean then she may be lying to me and I wouldn't know it. Of course this is where trust comes in, but I guess I can't trust her until she admits some of her lies. I thought about not spying, but then, I would have to live based off what she says. Which can all be a big lie. It's like the saying: What you don't know can't hurt. Is that what you're recommending? To just not know so everything will be good? It is tempting, but I just have this urge to know and I feel like I would be handle it better now than before. I just hope she gives me the chance to show her that I really am better now. - Also it was never confirmed that she is cheating. I've just mentioned the possibility of cheating and how easy it would be. So far the only things I know for sure is that she lied about her trip to seeing her friend. Also she lies when she is sleeping to talk to these strangers and she is talking to these guys exchanging skype/pictures.

You're already assuming she's lying. It really is not healthy to spy on your partner. Shes jsut gonna keep on lying and in all honesty we all tell a lil white lie here and there.

as i read your posts i jstu find you so confusing. You wanna work on the relationship yet you do silly things that would kill the relationship. Trust, honesty beliving in your partner are fundamental in any relationship

[MadMolly]

Listen: the damage is done. You can't honestly believe you will suddenly go back to trusting her 100%, can you? Likewise, do you think she will suddenly decide to stop lying? How can you trust her if she's already lied? How can you be with her if there is no trust?

Basically the damage is done. Once she told the first lie, there was no going back for either of you. Accept this.

I think the issue of whether or not she is cheating is NOT an issue anymore. If you can even entertain the thought that she has the capacity to cheat on you then there is not enough trust for this to be a working relationship.

[Miramaid]

Miramaid: I think it was you that mentioned your bf would interrogate you and annoy the hell out of you. Yet, you guys are still together. That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to stay with her and to make things better.

Good. My BF stopped constantly thinking that I am going to cheat on him. It is still a process but it is a lot better than it used to be.
I already gave you advice: be that fun and relaxed guy she met, give her love and COMMUNICATE better. Talk about your dreams and thoughts. Not just about the two of you but about what YOU want. Share with her. Be the man any woman would dream of. And be confident and sure that your woman is not gonna cheat

[Minerva]

If you have to spy on your partner to make sure they're not cheating, THE RELATIONSHIP IS NEAR DEATH. Sorry to go all caps-lock on you, but you're having a really hard time understanding this.

Cheating and lying are violations of trust. But so is spying!

Seriously, listen to yourself and imagine your girl reading what you've been saying here. This is what you're saying to her through your thoughts and actions: "I don't trust you not to cheat on me because you've created a pattern of lies. The first thought I have when I can't get ahold of you is that you're with another man. I think you're setting up dates in chat rooms. I'm tracking your online activities because I don't trust you at all. I'm certain you'd cheat on me if you had the chance, and so that justifies my spying on you, because when you do cheat on me, I want to know."

If your side of things is accurate and she is lying and thinking about cheating on you, why would you want to be with her?

If your insecurites have blown things way out of proportion, why would she want to be with you?

I say this with all kindness: you're acting possessive and desperate and are a step away from stalking your own girlfriend and thinking that's OK. How can you fix this? Fix yourself. Until you can reccognize that spying on the person you love is wrong and there is no justification for it, you're being just as bad as you claim she is. As long as you think every time she isn't available she's cheating on you, this will never get better.

What can you do?

Get out of this toxic relationship and fix your own issues and move on to something healthy.

[Zapookie]

I agree with Minerva.

This relationship isn't healthy for either of you if you have to resort to spying on her and she has to resort to lying.

I don't see that there is anything worth salvaging anymore. You may think because she still talks to you that there is, but that doesn't mean that her heart is any longer in this relationship. She is miles away and you don't even realise, and there is no forcing someone to come back to you.

I know you're probably scared to lose her, but it's the best thing for BOTH of you. To be in relationship with someone, you need to have a balance within yourself. That way, when the two people come together, they build each other up rather than tearing each other down.

I know you came here for advice, but you are not willing to take it. We tell you that you need to stop with the spying and checking up on her, but then you say you feel that you will be left out of the loop if you do. Well that's just what you need to do, because normal, stable couples in a relationship don't spy on their partner. They TRUST. They trust that their partner won't do it. And if you know you can't trust her EVER, even if you wanted to, then why are you in a relationship with her? There's nothing you can do to fix that. Trust is the foundation of a relationship and if you don't have that, you have nothing. Its like a house built on no foundation. When the waters rise, it will get swept away.

[dummy56]

You guys are all right. Miramaid: you say to be the fun loving guy I was before, wouldn't that mean I just pretend nothing is happening? I want to just talk to her so that we can be open again. I feel that as long as she doesn't know I'm spying, she would just continue to lie. I mean when she said she would go see her friend, she did mention she'd probably go to a club with her friend. Now I know don't know if this is the same female friend or anything. But she did throw in the possibility of the club. I mean maybe this is her sort of testing the waters? But you think if I just sort of left myself out of the loop, everything would be better? Sure my trust in her may never be fully restored, but I think her trust in me that I won't go crazy about every little detail can be restored.

[MadMolly]

"Sure my trust in her may never be fully restored"

This is all you need to know to know the relationship is over. How can you possibly be happy with someone you can't trust? That's ridiculous.

Things are NOT going to go back to the way they were.

[dummy56]

I just talked to her. Basically she's been feeling pressured in coming online at a certain time and stuff. I talked to her about it and she told me a bunch of things I did that bothered her. I just need to behave better and we agreed on that. She seems better to have told me that.

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I mean she mentioned to me that she is going to most likely go to a club when she goes to see her friend. Of course, she never specified where she was going which was a different country or with which friends, but I mean by mentioning she is going to a club doesn't that say anything? I think we know from my rant that going to clubs is just something that makes me incredibly uncomfortable. But she still told me and I didn't react crazy. I know it may sound silly but I just have this feeling that I should trust her. Like my head says no, but my heart says I should. I may be being silly/ridiculous/naive/whatever but she said she didn't want to lose me and that just felt pressured by me to do things like coming online for a longer time and stuff. She is incredibly patient and I've told her that she can tell me anything, even if that meant she wanted to sign off earlier to even go to the chats. I'm wondering if she gets it that she can tell me or if she will still hide that fact.

In fact, I don't see her in the chat anymore. She claimed that she wasn't online at all for our date because she just didn't want to be on the laptop. I don't know, she came online today though to tell me this and it seems like she wants this work and is willing to put some time into it. So doesn't that say anything? I know you guys think it's still over, but I'm not giving up just yet.

[dummy56]

I mean if she is willing to tolerate this and to talk to me about my problem, isn't that something?

[Silvaria]

I know that I said my last post will be my last, but, I just had to say this.

You aren't looking for advice, you are looking for validation that everything is going to be OK. None of us are going to give you that because from our third party, unbiased perspective, this relationship is as unhealthy as one most of us have ever heard of.

Everything that she is doing reminds me EXACTLY of everything my SO did last year before he DUMPED me. Feeling pressure to come online, lying about what he was doing, not showing up for dates and then claiming his Net went down, telling ME that -I- need to behave better. Like you, I did everything I could to "behave", but he dumped me anyhow, because like your SO, his heart was no longer in the relationship.

I'm sorry that you aren't getting what you want from us, which is telling you that yes, you should stick with this, you should try to "behave" better, you shouldn't give up, but honestly, as most of us have said, this is obviously an extremely unhealthy relationship, and both of you are better off finding other people.

Edited to add: No, the fact that she's willing to talk doesn't mean ANYTHING. My SO was "willing to talk" about those issues last year and he STILL dumped me. Talking doesn't mean anything...her heart just isn't in this anymore, and I suspect she's staying with you because she doesn't want to hurt you.

And that is all I can really say. Good luck.

[dummy56]

I understand. I guess I was hoping to hear from people with possibly similar experiences that were able to salvage their relationships to hear some advice from them. I mean don't people have fights or arguments or some rough patch? Why can't they be worked out? I mean believe it or not, we've had similar arguments and stuff early in the relationship in regards to my reaction to stuff and I remember after fixing that, that everything was back to normal and great. I mean you don't have to believe the relationship can be salvaged or believe that there are still feelings. I guess if you were her, what would I have to do to make things better. Things like that are what I'm looking for. You guys are all probably right that this may end any minute now, but I mean why not try?

[Minerva]

Silvaria hit it on the head that you're looking for validation.

Yes, most relationships go through rough patches, yes people fight and move on just fine. Fighting, bickering, getting on each other's nerves -- that's normal for a rough patch. Spying, lying, acting desperate, tracking your partner's activity, possible cheating or fear a partner is on the verge of cheating -- that's not normal.

Why hasn't anyone posted about coming back from these issues and making a success of their relationships? Because relationships don't survive this kind of assault.

This is unhealthy. And there's nothing you can say that will convince me otherwise. And at the root is your own unhealthy attitude. You will never be able to fix this because your attitude isn't healthy. If it was, you'd see this for the broken relationship it is and you'd understand the part you've played in making it this way.

But you're going to keep trying, so more power to you. I think this relationship is a dead-end, I think you need to work on your own issues before trying to work on any relationship, and I think you're on the verge of crossing some lines with your partner (spying and assuming the worst about your partner is highly disrespectful. Furthermore, you don't have a say in who she hangs out with or where she goes -- you're too passive to ask for power over her social life, but I think you'd be happy if she let you have it).

Thus, all I can say is I wish you luck and I wish the best for you, but I can't really help you.

[dummy56]

So even if I back off and fix my insecurities/spying.. and turn back into the great guy before, this is still over? I mean let's pretend miraculous things can happen, what miraculous thing must happen for this to work? I know this is all my fault. I am taking blame for this. But I am willing to do whatever it takes to make things better. I mean I think lies do happen, I mean of course the degree of the severity varies but it happens. Like if he wanted to go to a club but she would be bothered by it, he may say he didn't go or no girl even talked to him. And the spying I guess you can compare to like reading the person's facebook. I know you people don't see it to be even remotely similar but I don't know, if you were looking at your SO's facebook and happened to find an interesting post, wouldn't you scroll down a bit to see what was going on? I mean I really would find it hard to believe no one would scroll down to see it when it's on facebook open to the whole world to see. And the person wouldn't even know you looked. Isn't that similar? I guess you guys would say not. I know I crossed the line, but at least I'm willing to do something about it and to change. Can I even get some hypothetical advice?

[Zapookie]

The advice we gave you, is to stop spying on and suspecting her.

You're validating your actions saying that it's OK, but its not. It's not the same as Facebook. Facebook is open for everyone on a friends list to see. If there was something they didn't want anyone to see, it would be either deleted or made private. The equivalent to what you're doing when you're talking within the context of Facebook is for example: if you were NOT on her friends list, and you made a fake account and added her, without her knowing that it's you, just to be able to see her page and what she's doing. THAT is spying. Because it's going behind someones back while trying to keep tabs on them without their knowledge.

Are you REALLY willing to do something about it and change? Because it seems in your mind that everything you're doing is OK in some shape or form. You have to understand first and foremost that its not alright, and then you have to take the steps to stop spying. Like deleting your other account on that chat site, or deleting the bookmark you have for the chat page if you have it bookmarked so you're not tempted to go on there. Maybe even put it on the blocked websites list in your browser so it won't let you. And then you give yourself time, to change your thinking patterns about her and always assuming the worst.