She is hiding and keeping secrets

[Miramaid]

The reason why befriending guys online bothers me is because I believe it leads to a potential relationship. Sure there may be no attraction in the beginning but then after talking and realizing how great the guy is, why wouldn't there be an attraction? Unless there are superficial or really bad past reasons, I don't see why wouldn't it become something. That's exactly what happened to us. Ours was just talking and eventually it led to something. So I know that she is capable of developing these attractions through conversation and time and such. Now imagine it with people in her area, it's even easier to cheat/meet and even become closer to these people. I understand she doesn't have to hook up in the club, but I mean just the area is conducive for wild behavior. Some guy may say the right things and bam, she can be cheating. It really falls on her, but I just don't know if she'd be so strong, especially with me complaining about anything.

Then according to your logic you too can dump her over some other female friend of yours hat I am sure you do have. You can even dump her over us coz u are taking to us on here and we are women. And it seems like she better not talk to any men ever just in case she develops feelings for them and you too can not talk to any women so you do not develop feelings for them.
It is ridiculous. As much as I am a jealous person myself, it is a bit much. The only thing I want my SO to do is to tell me about his friends. I want to know about them, what they do when they hang out and I want to meet them when I am with him. He is not always too receptive, but we have made some progress about that too. If he has friends then I want to know his friends. Same goes for me - I do not mind at all introducing him to my guy friends. And no I do not think it is that easy to develop feelings for someone just because he or she is a good person. There are many god people around and if we were to fall in love with every single one the whole world would be in trouble.

I think you need to calm down a little. She may be a natural flirt and she may be lying to you, but I really do suspect she has reasons to, because you seem a bit too paranoid even on here (do not mean to offend you in any way). If you do not like something you should be able to talk to her about it CALMLY. And be able to deal with your insecurities and not give her unreasonable requests

My SO a few times blew up on me when he called and I did not pick up the phone. Couple of times i was in the bathroom, one time i was in a shower, and once i forgot my phone in my friend's car. All those times he yelled at me or ignored when i called back 5-10 MINUTES LATER. Then he told me that he wanted me to take my phone to the bathroom with me and reasoned it with "you keep your skype on all night so your mom can call you at any time (it is true) so why not take your phone to the bathroom with you?". I suspect that you are THAT jealous and i do not know how patient your SO is. I think i have way above average kind of patience, but not many people have that. As I said me and my SO are working on things HARD. It has been quite a process but we have made progress. Work on yourself and good luck!

[Silvaria]

Your posts repeatedly mention lies that she has told while promising you that she is not lying.

People who love someone do not lie to them over and over and over regardless of the reason. Honest relationships are just that: Honest.

Sweetie, she is CHOOSING to lie...you're not forcing her to do that. You're not holding a gun to her head. If she had an ounce of respect for you, she wouldn't lie. She'd tell you point-blank what she was doing, and let you deal with how you handle it.

It's like an adulterer saying, "He MADE me cheat on him, if he'd just done X and X, I wouldn't have cheated!" Nope. People CHOOSE to cheat...no one makes them.

What I find truly sad here is that you have taken it entirely upon yourself to keep this relationship alive.

"What can I do", "How do I make her fall for me again", "How can I repair things".

I once did a lot of research into emotional abuse...to be blunt, you sound like the victim of emotional abuse. Perhaps not from her, but from someone in your life.

Why? Because A) You are accepting blame for everything that is wrong in your relationship, B) you believe that you can "fix" things by changing -your- behavior, and C) you are afraid to confront her with her blatant lies.

I know, because I've been the victim of emotional abuse. Like you, I thought it was all MY fault, that if I could just change MY behavior things would be great, and I was terrified of confronting him because I knew that I would get the blame for everything, which led to me thinking it was all MY fault, if I could just change MY behavior, and so on.

It was a horribly vicious cycle.

I'm going to ask you a very important favor: If you choose to reply to this message, I respectfully request that you do not make ANY statements accepting blame. I would like you instead to talk about how her lying is making YOU feel. No excuses for WHY she lies, no comments about how you have driven her to this...just a simple explanation of how her constant lying to your face (so to speak) is making YOU feel.

Sorry if this sounded harsh, but...this just seems very sad to me.

[MadMolly]

The way I see it: This relationship is already over. You have no faith in her and she is lying to you.

I honestly think there is no way to fix this. The cracks are too deep.

Harsh but I really can't see how this situation could ever be reversed.

[Miramaid]

Sweetie, she is CHOOSING to lie...you're not forcing her to do that. You're not holding a gun to her head. If she had an ounce of respect for you, she wouldn't lie. She'd tell you point-blank what she was doing, and let you deal with how you handle it.

I disagree. People who are confident enough in themselves tell the truth regardless of the consequences. But for one, not everyone is that confident and not everyone is willing and ready to deal with THOSE kind of consequences. According to my SO I constantly lie as well (or used to) and I guess I did. It was NEVER about anything huge (i.e. cheating or hiding potentially dangerous for relationship things, seeing my exes or anything like that), but my SO's reaction to everything and anything I did was always CONFLICT and SUSPICIONS. Now, CONFIDENT and ASSERTIVE person would have spot those behaviors from the get go and leave. But how many of us are so confident and how many of us are assertive when we are in love? Not many. And how many of us are sooooo eager to do ANYTHING to make our SO happy even if it means that we have to lie in order to please our SO and yet at the same time do the things we NORMALLY DO (i.e. talk to our friends, hang out with them, being able to go to places etc.). So we do what it takes to stay sane and make our SO happy. We do what we know to do.

No one is at the right or wrong here. She needs to learn to tell the truth and he needs to learn to be confident and not interrogate and smoother her and push her away. It took me a while to realize and I am now working on telling the truth even thought it is HARD sometimes knowing that I will either be yelled at, judged, or ignored or he may even break up with me (like he did 5 TIMES!). Who would want that? No one. I am holding on to him because I really do love him. And seems like we both are working on things. But no do not blame the girl alone. Two ppl are involved here.

Yet again, he can not fix her. He can only fix himself. And usually when we change, things around us change. It is a law of the nature. So if he starts changing she is likely to change as well.

[Silvaria]

And how many of us are sooooo eager to do ANYTHING to make our SO happy even if it means that we have to lie in order to please our SO and yet at the same time do the things we NORMALLY DO (i.e. talk to our friends, hang out with them, being able to go to places etc.). So we do what it takes to stay sane and make our SO happy. We do what we know to do.

If one has to lie repeatedly and blatantly in order to keep another person happy, then as far as I'm concerned and as several others have said, the relationship is doomed.

She needs to be with someone she can be honest with, and he needs to be with someone whom he can trust. Those are two key components of a healthy relationship; without them, this relationship is extremely unhealthy, and since he seems unwilling to talk to her about it, I'm not sure there's really much hope here, to be frank.

[Zapookie]

If one has to lie repeatedly and blatantly in order to keep another person happy, then as far as I'm concerned and as several others have said, the relationship is doomed.

Exactly! If I do something that I know my SO isn't going to be happy about, I still tell him the truth and await impending disappointment... why? because I still want want him to be able to trust me. But the whole point is that I don't do things to upset my SO, I avoid it as much as I possibly can! Simply because I respect him and his feelings and I would never want him to feel insecure or hurt by MY actions.

[Miramaid]

Exactly! If I do something that I know my SO isn't going to be happy about, I still tell him the truth and await impending disappointment... why? because I still want want him to be able to trust me. But the whole point is that I don't do things to upset my SO, I avoid it as much as I possibly can! Simply because I respect him and his feelings and I would never want him to feel insecure or hurt by MY actions.

It all makes perfect sense BUT there are people that react in a not-so normal way to NORMAL actions such as making hew friends, hanging out with friend, FB comments, going out etc. There are people who for whatever reason feel very uncomfortable about those things and their imagination start ranging and imagining what is not there. As a result, conflicts out of nothing occur and soon the person who is not doing anything wrong prefers to just shut up and not say a word not not get anyone upset over something that should never be a reason for disappointment (or a break up happens)

---------- Post added at 04:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 AM ----------

Exactly! If I do something that I know my SO isn't going to be happy about, I still tell him the truth and await impending disappointment... why? because I still want want him to be able to trust me. But the whole point is that I don't do things to upset my SO, I avoid it as much as I possibly can! Simply because I respect him and his feelings and I would never want him to feel insecure or hurt by MY actions.

It all makes perfect sense BUT there are people that react in a not-so normal way to NORMAL actions such as making hew friends, hanging out with friend, FB comments, going out etc. There are people who for whatever reason feel very uncomfortable about those things and their imagination start ranging and imagining what is not there. As a result, conflicts out of nothing occur and soon the person who is not doing anything wrong prefers to just shut up and not say a word not not get anyone upset over something that should never be a reason for disappointment (or a break up happens)

[Zapookie]

It all makes perfect sense BUT there are people that react in a not-so normal way to NORMAL actions such as making hew friends, hanging out with friend, FB comments, going out etc. There are people who for whatever reason feel very uncomfortable about those things and their imagination start ranging and imagining what is not there. As a result, conflicts out of nothing occur and soon the person who is not doing anything wrong prefers to just shut up and not say a word not not get anyone upset over something that should never be a reason for disappointment (or a break up happens)

That is understandable. But in this case, the OP has spoken to his SO about this before, so she is well aware that what she is doing is causing anguish. So why does she continue to go behind his back and lie? Why can she not cease this behaviour? The saying tells us not to change for anyone, but when your actions are detrimental to your relationship, there needs to be some kind of change, otherwise nothing will ever get better.

The OP says that they have tried fresh starts numerous times.. but that is not working. Why? Because she hasn't changed. She hasn't kept her promise. She continues to lie because she knows that if the OP found out, he would be hurt. It just makes more sense to stop purposely hurting the one you "love", than to lie about it, trying to cover it up. It really is emotional abuse. And if they can't stop, then they shouldn't continue to be with their partner if they can't change their behavioural patterns. No matter how much you love someone, there comes a point where if it's damaging you, whether it be mentally, physically... you can't continue to take it. Because that kind of thing breaks a person down until they are no more, and it wasn't even worth it, because in the end, the person they loved so much turned out to be someone else.

I'm sorry if my words come off as harsh or blunt, but I feel so strongly about this because I believe in being completely honest in a relationship. I am seeing this kind of thing happening in real life to my own mother, so it hits close to home. It's not okay to just put up with someones bad behaviour, because then that's acknowledging it but not doing anything about it and the other person think's its OK to do keep on acting in that way.

[dummy56]

Your responses were all great! I just feel that she is not getting the stimulation she used to get from me. Sure she is going to spend money to go somewhere else with her friends, but she did try to see me. She was rejected a u.s. visa twice. I deeply regret not seeing her this past summer. I wanted to continue working to save up so I'd be able to stay longer with her. Two things could have happened. If I saw her this past summer, everything would have been great and we would have had a lot of fun and hopefully those fun times would have carried over until our next meeting. OR we could have had our fun, then when I became crazy she could have easily dropped me because there was nothing else to look forward to because she would had already seen me.

I do appreciate Miramaid's view point on trying to protect the SO. I mean feel that's what my SO is doing. She is just avoiding conflict and trying not to hurt my feelings. I appreciate that, but it still hurts to see the lying. Maybe she does it out of love? Maybe, but she does seem a bit unhappy with me. I am afraid to talk to her about honesty again because I think this "refresh" is too recent and hopefully after good behavior it'll be okay for me to talk to her about being honest again with me. But when you think about it, why be honest if something is working so well? As in hiding stuff from me and I am behaving well, so why bring up things that would disturb that? I believe the distance is killing her and I wish I could be there with her, but I am a student and I have a life here.

I am just being impatient with the healing. I really want her to feel better and forget about everything so I can talk to her about being honest again. However, this is a very delicate and sensitive thing that I cannot rush. I guess the only way for me to find out what she's really doing to watch her in the chat. To be honest, lately in our talks, she looks sad/unhappy/possibly guilty. A part of me thinks she pretends to be sad/unhappy because that's how she was before she started going to the chats. Then her mood suddenly improved and I was surprised and I asked how it got all better and such. She used to be so unhappy for quite some time then suddenly everything got better? Of course I got paranoid and I questioned how/why she felt better. So I feel that possibly after going out with these people she gets home and saddens herself then comes online which is absolutely awful. I really do want her happy. I can imagine how great it would be if she were happy and told me about the things she was doing. I would be happier then. Well probably not, I would probably think some unmentionable things happened that put her in such a good mood. But yeah she does seem guilty lately. Like she looks down, mumbles, has a straight face. Maybe it is my insanity making this up. But let's suppose she does feel guilty. What should I do? I don't want to say anything because then it's like "ohhh you feel guilty? I wonder why? What did you do? blah blah blah" and we are back to where we started. I guess hopefully, if she does feel guilty, that with my good behavior maybe she'll just tell me?

I don't know what more I can do. I feel that when someone is energetic/enthusiastic it livens things up and hopefully transfers some of that energy/enthusiasm. I try to be energetic/enthusiastic but she feels kind of mopey. Any advice here? I mean we used to play games together but it seems like she's getting bored of them. Or in fact, she just gets bored playing with me. I try to joke and try to laugh about the mistakes we make in the game. But I don't know.

Also about the chatting online thing, I feel that she made another skype account to talk to these people without being interrupted by me. When we talk to each other we try to only talk to each other and to no one else. So she exchanged pictures with one of the women from the chat and the woman talks about how gorgeous my SO is and is collecting pictures from all the people in the chat. I mean, don't you think some guys will get curious? So of course they'll probably see the picture and say "oh wow she really is gorgeous let me try and hook up with that". I mean, why wouldn't a guy try to hook up with a gorgeous girl? So anyway, this is what bothers me. I mean chatting online leads to people getting close and trying to get into each other's lives. So why go for me when we're so far when she can go with someone so close?

So I guess, what would be some signs of when I can talk to her again about trust. Right now, I am backing off and not interrogating her. Does this mean I can't ask about her day or what she did in her day? I figure I'd let her keep it vague and stuff. Miramaid, would I have to talk to her about being open and honest or would she be able to become open and honest on her own after good behavior?

---------- Post added at 07:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 AM ----------

Also I think I should mention that during one of our arguments when I kept interrogating her, she mentioned that how crazy I get and that she feels like not telling me anything anymore. Of course at the end I asked her if she will and she said she will. Clearly a lie. But then again, she was lying before that. So I really just need to lay off I suppose..

[Miramaid]

Reading this is making my head spin. Please try to re-read what you just wrote and look at it as if someone else wrote it. What do you see? I am not trying to preach or be mean, but, man, this is just crazy.
Your brain is overworking and overthinking. If I was her I too would be unhappy. And if once in a blue moon I went out of just woke up and felt better and had to explain to my BF how come I do not feel unhappy any more I would go nuts! As if he can not even see me happy without thinking that I am cheating! That is CRAZY! And ironically me and my SO have been there too. Thank god those days are not here any more (at least for now) and it actually took me time and counseling to learn how to be HAPPY with or without him. I am still struggling with it but I am learning.

You keep asking why a guy in chat would not like to mess around with her. Well he might. And so what? Two of my SO's FRIENDS wanted to get with me did I do it? Hell NO! Also, you are a guy and you are on chats too. You chat with women too. Are you that weak and you would cheat and do something with them? Is that why you are so afraid she will? Coz you know you can (or do)? What is the real problem here? Because the problem here is not her, is you.

Why can't you just be happy when she is happy? Why do you need to think that she is happy because of some BAD reason?
I too would feel guilty talking to you and feeling happy coz you suspect me all the time! What you gonna do it drive her up to the wall and she just might really cheat! I mean if she gets blamed for something for 3 years she may as well do it since you are blaming her anyways! I am not saying she will. She actually sounds like a girl who would not and you sound like a guy who needs to slow his brain down and stop your wild imagination and overthinking. You need to put your energy into creating good memories for the two of you again, into surprising her, into showing her how happy you are that she is in your life and how much she means to you. And look what you are doing instead? Blame and suspect, blame and suspect. You are your own worst enemy who is ruining your own relationship.

I will tell you a secret: a woman will never leave or cheat on a man if he makes her feel good about herself no matter how she looks or how moody she gets. Do you do that? Do you make her feel good about herself? I doubt that. Seems like she is in a good mood - you suspect her and wonder all the bad things, she is in a bad mood - it is bad too coz then it means she is unhappy with you, she tells you things and you react like crazy, she doesn't tell you things and you call her a liar. There is no way to please you! You can not make her happy being like that.

[dummy56]

Miramaid: you are right. I know it is my problem. I really am trying to relax. I am going to therapy. I try to make her happy but it just seems like it just doesn't make her happy. No matter what I do, whenever I try to surprise her or anything, there is just some sort of indifference from her side. Yes I know I feel like I am driving her to cheat. And I would not cheat. I know the kind of person I am. I am totally committed to her. However, she has a history of cheating. Multiple times. In fact, when I met her in the chat, she was with someone! She was emotionally cheating I suppose. I wanted to have a date with her today and I suggested a time and she would keep talking about how bad that time would be (even though last week we met even earlier!). So here I am already suspecting she has plans but doesn't want to tell me. I ask her casually if she has anything planned, even if that is going to the store or whatever. She says she'll be home the whole day, but she pushes for later time? Also, she is late, in fact she is over an hour late - what should I be thinking here? I see her in the chats talking to people about a possible meet up, I mean this would be perfect. Of course, then why would she pick this time if she was going to be late? Well sometimes if things are going well in this meet up they probably decide to stay out later and do some more stuff and bam, it's late and here I am waiting for her having no idea what is going on.

Am I being ridiculous? Perhaps. But what could she be doing that she can't come online? I mean I've seen her do her chores before so it's not a problem if she really did have to do housework and stuff. Even if she did, she would've just signed on so I'd at least know she's there. Then from this, she must be out. I know you people will all say I am being crazy but just imagine it. You have no plans (possibly lying to me), and you say youll stay at home. So why is it difficult to just even sign on unless you weren't even home to sign on? You may say, she didn't feel like signing on, but then why would she pick that time? She probably didn't expect the hang out to last that long, and why would she leave early for me? Anyway, it's just one possibility. Another is that she is home but in fact, is asleep. Well every time that she has just woken up from sleeping, she yawns nonstop so let's see if she yawns and stuff. If she doesn't then I think it indicates something about her whereabouts.

I know this is some intense serious overthinking but I don't know what else to think about something like this. How should I react? Should I pretend it's okay that she is over an hour late for a time that she chose? Should I even ask where she was? Should I even mention to her that it is okay to tell me anything no matter what and ask where she was? I know it would be breaking the idea of backing off, but this seems like a good opportunity to sort of get her to be honest and whatever. But you guys are right that there really is no way to please me. I don't know what to do.

What should I do in this situation when she finally does decide to come online? Do I pretend nothing happened?

And also, the people she chats with (that live in her area and talk about meeting up) they aren't in the chat when they usually are. Coincidence?

[Miramaid]

But what could she be doing that she can't come online? I mean I've seen her do her chores before so it's not a problem if she really did have to do housework and stuff. Even if she did, she would've just signed on so I'd at least know she's there. Then from this, she must be out. I know you people will all say I am being crazy but just imagine it. You have no plans (possibly lying to me), and you say youll stay at home. So why is it difficult to just even sign on unless you weren't even home to sign on? You may say, she didn't feel like signing on, but then why would she pick that time? She probably didn't expect the hang out to last that long, and why would she leave early for me? Anyway, it's just one possibility. Another is that she is home but in fact, is asleep. Well every time that she has just woken up from sleeping, she yawns nonstop so let's see if she yawns and stuff. If she doesn't then I think it indicates something about her whereabouts.

You need to be a detective. Seriously.


what should you do? You should not ask her where she was. That is interrogating. But what you could do is tell her that when you decide to meet at a certain time you wait for her and you arrange your time around that meeting and when she doesn't come (or is late) your plans do not go the way they are supposed to. And just ask her to try to be on time. ASK. Not demand.

Also may be you guys could find a way to send each other txt messages. I know a web site that allows to send txt to the USA phones from the internet. May be there is something similar in her country.

Also next time when you arrange meeting, casually tell her that if she is late you will just go to bed or smth and tell her not to worry about it and that you will talk later then. Casually and with no accusations.
There is time difference btw you guys and anything can happen why she is late: a car or bus broke down, she is really having a good time and is late, or she may be in a hospital and you have no idea. But you already wrote on here that you already suspect she is cheating. You only keep asking "why else would she do that?" in every sentence.

[ChibiFelicia]

..I dont even know what to say anymore. i think miramaid hit the nail on the head with her last , last post (she posted again when i was typing this lol). To me you seem to want to see the bad side all the time. I cant imagine what it is like to be investigating per say what she's doing and who is online etc etc it must be so tiring. Seriously you are your own worst enemy. You mention your going to therapy, it wont work if you're still over thinking everything. Im gonna second what every one else has said. This relationship will eventually end if you cant stop this overthinking, being suspicious about everything!

Shes late for a date? i think id be more worried about whether something happened to them, rather than automatically think shes doing something bad. Its not healthy the way you automatically assume things.

You say shes had a history of cheating and thats how you guys started. Thats a big enough red flag to me. I dont feel that once a cheater always a cheater, but if you cant get over that fact then it's gonna haunt you (and it is). I actually met my current man (online, in a game) while i was still dating my ex of 7 years. The relationship had long ended, i just never had the courage to kick him out (he was living in my house). It bothers me sometimes when i talk to my man about this because i hate the idea of cheating. Im disgusted with myself that i could have emotionally cheated on someone, but i was so unhappy (long story). My man actually still teases me about it, that imma "cheater" but in all seriousness it doesnt bother him. He knows what i am like, he knows i am fiercly loyal and that situation was really hard for me (hard for all 3 of us tbh). He trusts me. The way i feel about him, the way he makes me feel, we trust and believe in each other. I am the jealous type, way more so than he is. Your gf should be trying to reassure you but honestly..the way you come across in posts, she must have a huge amount of patience because im not sure many ppl would be able to take that amount of insecurity/jealousy/suspicion.

Be honest with yourself. If you cannot handle this, and are just gonna keep going about things the way you are, you may as well do yourselves both a favour and jsut take a break. The longer this carries on (cause you said you only jsut started doing this a few months ago right?) the harder its gonna be to build up your relationship again

[Zapookie]

Don't pretend that it's okay to be an hour late for a date. If it were real life, and she was over an hour late at a time she chose, you wouldn't be happy. No one would be happy, and no really likes waiting around for other people. And it's not cool to let the people you care about wait around for you, without notifying them first as to why you may not be on time. You shouldn't be acting oblivious to all this. You're re-enforcing to her that it's okay to be so blase about everything. If she's late, you tell her you've been waiting and ask her what caused her to be late. That's a normal thing to asks someone if they did not get there on time, is it not? I don't see that as "interrogation." Asking her about her day shouldn't be considered "interrogation" either, because that's just just normal banter between two people who are genuinely interested in what each other has to say.

[dummy56]

@miramaid: So Just ask her to be on time next time. I shouldn't even ask where she was/how her day was/anything? Wondering would just eat me up inside to be honest. So what about this texting online thing you mentioned? She is in a different country, but I hope using this will not cost us any extra data. She doesn't have a data plan. The thing is, the time difference really is so big that, by the time she goes to sleep it's still rather early for me so I will be around no matter how late she is. I honestly think the likelihood of such an accident is minimal. She has a car and so she can get around rather easily. It's just that she didn't say she was going anywhere, so why is she suddenly out? I know she really can go out if she wants, but I mean in general, if you don't plan on going out, why would you? Things like going to the store/etc would sort of be planned, but meeting people I think can be rather spontaneous. So I don't know what to think anymore.

so when she comes on, just continue about our date?