Midlife Crises

[differentcountries]

I actually get what Luc is saying. There are degrees though. I am trying to learn my SO how to communicate when he is overwealmed, confused or sad . He never had anyone teaching him that before. If I sense he is processing something, I leave him alone for some time, maybe a day and a half. Then I recon he has done all the thinking he can on his own. My husband also becomes very quiet when he is processing things. He has gotten better at saying "Now I am processing and need to be alone ", though. Boyfriend is not quite there yet, but I guess it comes with time.

[sarahjane1992]

I actually get what Luc is saying. There are degrees though. I am trying to learn my SO how to communicate when he is overwealmed, confused or sad . He never had anyone teaching him that before. If I sense he is processing something, I leave him alone for some time, maybe a day and a half. Then I recon he has done all the thinking he can on his own. My husband also becomes very quiet when he is processing things. He has gotten better at saying "Now I am processing and need to be alone ", though. Boyfriend is not quite there yet, but I guess it comes with time.

So you think it's perfectly ok for somebody's SO to just plain ignore them with no explanation or reason why? There are times when my SO and I don't talk during the day. Either I'm in class or he's playing soccer. But I would never just ignore him. And the same goes for him. If I need time to get work done I'll let him know. It's just plain rude and inconsiderate not too.

[Malaga]

I'm thinking I just got super lucky to get a great guy who neither ignores me nor tells me to "piss off." He loves me enough to include me, even if he is hurt, overwhelmed, or needing time alone. IF he wanted time alone, he'd straight up tell me he needs some time, and not in an ignoring or "piss off" manner.

What is with these people???

It's that trope again, you know, just a simple guy who cares about you but can't handle his emotions or your nagging so when he's ignoring you or being verbally abusive he's not manipulating you, it's just his way of handling things because mens brainz and love languages. God forbid you should expect him to act like a grown up.

[Luc]

Wow, seems my little reply on the previous page caused quite a bit of commotion. Lets sort this all out:

Before I comment, I'm going to ask, do you tell your SO you need some time, or do you hang up mid-call/delete her on FB/stop responding until you feel like it?
There's a world of difference between "Hey, I need some time, leave me alone for a bit" type "ignoring" (which personally I'm hesitant to even call ignoring) and deleting people from your social media/not taking their calls/actively avoiding them.

The type that's hanging up a call, intentionally not being in touch without saying why, etc. is kind of childish, and it's also rude and inconsiderate to the partner. I don't think there are pretty much ever circumstances where I'd be okay with a partner ignoring me.
But, as I said, ignoring is different than a partner needing some space or time without contact. But as adults, that should be communicated, and respected.

When I need space I usually communicate that to my SO in some way or another. I'm not the kind of person who leaves his SO in the dark. But not every man is like me though. Keep in mind that the "man" the OP is dealing with here is merely 19 years old. Most 19 years old men aren't really men yet, they're boys. So they'll behave like boys. I would be the first one to admit that ignoring your SO without giving her a reason is rather immature, I personally would always tell my SO when I need space, I'd never just ignore her without notifying her that "hey, things got a little heated back there and I couldn't take it anymore. I need some space to calm down and sort out my feelings. I'll contact you when I'm ready" (or something along those lines, usually a bit shorter and to the point when I'm really pissed off). But not all men are like that, most certainly not teenagers.

That said, one time my SO made me so super pissed that I did indeed hang up mid-call and intentionally ignored her for a while. I did this for her own good, because I was about to snap and say really ugly things to her that would hurt her deeply and I'm sure I would have regretted that later. So to spare her my tantrum, I decided to end our call and take some time off to blow off steam and get my shit together again. I contacted her again as soon as I calmed down.
You may think that's immature, but I think this is pretty damn mature, I'm sure some ladies here would agree that I did the right thing.

You tell a girl you no longer want to be in a relationship with to piss off? Seriously. You should come with a warning label.

If the girl crossed a certain line, drives me crazy and/or didn't listen to me the previous 20 times I said I need to be left alone? Yes, in that case I do tell my (ex-)girlfriend to piss off. I don't see how that is unreasonable.

That's not the point I was trying to make though. The point is that men, when they no longer want a future with you, will say so. I rarely see men running away from a relationship without notifying their partner that it's over. As long as a man doesn't say "it's over", I wouldn't assume it's over just yet.

Maybe this ignoring factor is the difference between boys and men. I dated boys, and they play games. I married a man, and yeah. It's pretty amazing.

I'm sorry to hear you're so self-centered that you think men should always be by your side even when they feel overwhelmed and need time and space alone to sort out their feelings. I'm sorry you think that turns men into boys who "play games".
Your man never takes time and space alone to sort out his feelings on his own terms without you involved? Or do you simply just not give him that opportunity when he needs time and space alone? And you're sure he's okay with that? Doesn't sound very healthy to me.

I'm with you, dglynn.... Guess I got lucky too and married a man. He's never intentionally ignored me. Meaning: I've felt as though I was being ignored when in reality his phone was being stupid and wasn't sending/receiving messages.

This might be difficult to hear but; are you sure that his phone wasn't sending/receiving messages? Or could it just be his excuse to cover up the fact he was ignoring you?

Newsflash: 99% of the time when someone doesn't reply to messages, it means he's ignoring you (for whatever reason). He most certainly received your messages.

Another lucky one here, I'm actually with an adult who doesn't play stupid mind games, we actually discuss when things are wrong! I wouldn't put up with being ignored, it's just plain rude, in my opinion of course

And another person who thinks creating some distance for reflection equals "playing stupid mind games".

Sometimes discussing things doesn't work. Discussions often turn out into arguments and when that happens, it's already too late. Fixing an argument is more difficult than preventing an argument. Arguments can be prevented by taking some time alone to reflect on the situation and your feelings, sort them out and then communicate them in a calm and loving way. Most of the time, when a man is hurt, overwhelmed or stressed he won't be able to express his feelings in a calm and loving way, especially not when he doesn't even know what he wants (which might very well be the case here with the OP's situation). Isn't it better in such a situation to take a step back, sort out your feelings and then come back to discuss things in a calm and loving way? Isn't that actually a very mature thing to do? I think so.

It's that trope again, you know, just a simple guy who cares about you but can't handle his emotions or your nagging so when he's ignoring you or being verbally abusive he's not manipulating you, it's just his way of handling things because mens brainz and love languages. God forbid you should expect him to act like a grown up.

I know this post is supposed to be sarcastic, but you have no idea how right you are. It's just how most men are. You can either accept it, or search for a man who isn't like that. They're probably rare, but I'm sure they exist.

[Hollandia]

This thread is completely derailed.

Every time this Luc guy posts, a group of female posters rebutt what he says. I for one, like having an adult male perspective on these boards and I wish some of you would stop jumping down his throat when he says something you don't like. Let the man clarify before you all compare him to your SOs. Some people have a hard time explaining exactly what that mean, regardless of anything else, he was being brutally honest and I respect him for having the balls to do it in this mostly women filled hen house mentality in this forum at times.

He said sometimes he goes out of his way to not hurt his SO's feelings more than likely, he means in the middle of a fight. Plenty of men do that in LDR and CD because of tempers and stress. I respect that and it is a damn sight better than getting into a pissing match. It is not childish in the slightest bit, it is what adults learn to do rather than hurting the feelings of someone they love. Just because your SO's prefer to fight it out on the spot does not make them any better than him choosing to bide his time until he is able to control the words that will come out of his mouth.

This is also just heresay on your parts, because quite frankly you are not your SO's and you have no idea if they ever avoided you when then were pissed about something. if they never did not pick up a call, or respond to a text right away or answer a ping? Boy, they are saints if not, I have done it and I am sure my SO has too.

Again, we really need to know what he meant, but jumping down his throat is more immature than him not wanting to talk to his SO because he is afraid he will say something that cannot be taken back. I have been married before and some words cut deep and can't be forgotten. Either way, I think you should hear him out.

[NerdyChick]

I agree this thread has really just gone off the main point.

But I think its hard to figure out what type of ignoring was being talked about, like there's a big difference between walking away to collect yourself, then reapproaching an issue calmly later on and the idea of ignoring because you are spiteful and trying to play head games after an argument or disagreement to garner attention or to purposefully impose a "punishment" on you significant other, and then there's also the type of ignoring that happens because you've got work to get done, or are legitimately busy in the moment, but you can make your SO aware of that.
I think Luc was blunt in his first statement, but I think that coupled with the OPs situation led people to believe he was referring to dropping off the face of the earth and just not talking to his SO because he suddenly finds her annoying or whatever, so the "ignoring to punish" situation. But after he clarified it, I think it's clear he meant taking some breathing time in a high-emotion situation, which is smart, taking time to rethink things, collecting your thoughts, and then reapproaching it later. Even in CD relationships that's smart, if something is going no where and emotions are running too high and only escalating, it's better to walk away, get some space, sit down later, and then reapproach it calmly later with your partner. I just think his first comment was short and sweet and easily misunderstood when held in the context of the OPs situation. I too was on the fence when I first read it as to what exactly he was referring to as far as the context was concerned. The OPs relationship was not simply a heated argument where the guy needed space to collect himself. So to Luc, I don't think they were saying taking space to gather your thoughts and calm down was "boyish" they meant using the sudden restriction of communication as a way to punish a significant other was an immature behavior. Taking time to gather your thoughts and leave a heated moment when it's only escalating is mature. But I think, like it was mentioned, if you need some space it's a smart idea to let your SO know that's what you're going to do, because on a computer it's hard to gather what just happened when someone sudden stops talking to you all together for days and days on end with no "heads up." But it takes two to tango, if you have an immature SO than it's unlikely working through things in a mature manner would work. Though I do welcome your male perspective to the forum, it's good to have a guy on here.

I know this post is supposed to be sarcastic, but you have no idea how right you are. It's just how most men are. You can either accept it, or search for a man who isn't like that. They're probably rare, but I'm sure they exist.

I will have to disagree with this notion though, guys are a spectrum of behaviors and reactions, that's called being an individual, and it really depends on how you were raised, the culture, what you internalize and use to cope with the world around you. Cutting off communication for a couple days with no "heads up" is like saying you handle your emotional upsets by leaving the house and not coming back from 3 days...I don't see how that manner of handling things would be either healthy or even applicable in a CD situation (I'm not specifically referring to you, but just anyone who thinks that works.) The point is, there are mature people out in this world, that if you tell them you need space, they will give you space, and if they need space, they will give you a heads up. If you have two people who actually respect each other as human beings or even admire one another to some degree, you don't get that whole screaming, cussing, character assassination and head games mentality, which is immature, unproductive, and only damages a relationship. That requires a lack of respect for the person you're talking to even get to that point...and I think out of all the people in the world you should have respect for, I would think it would be the person you choose to be in a relationship with or even hope to spend your life with. If you don't have respect for one another, why in the world would you even for a second be together?

[silvermoonfairy3]

Wow, seems my little reply on the previous page caused quite a bit of commotion. Lets sort this all out:

When I need space I usually communicate that to my SO in some way or another.

Then that's a different situation/not what I consider "ignoring" an SO.

That said, one time my SO made me so super pissed that I did indeed hang up mid-call and intentionally ignored her for a while. [...] I contacted her again as soon as I calmed down.

Again, I don't consider that ignoring then. That's taking time to cool off.

The point is that men, when they no longer want a future with you, will say so. I rarely see men running away from a relationship without notifying their partner that it's over. As long as a man doesn't say "it's over", I wouldn't assume it's over just yet.

I'm gonna disagree with this. Although, as you pointed out, the SO was dating a teenager, not a man, and teenagers DO sometimes run away from a relationship without saying anything.

But, when I was a stupid teenager, I had it done to me. In the story I relayed to the OP, where I was doing a lot of the same things she was. He didn't "end things" or tell me he wanted to be done. Deleting me from facebook, not taking my calls, and generally ignoring me should have been the obvious signs it was over, but I was deluded and young and stupid. So, no, I know from personal experience that guys don't always actually SAY something about it being over. Sometimes actions speak louder than words.

Your man never takes time and space alone to sort out his feelings on his own terms without you involved? Or do you simply just not give him that opportunity when he needs time and space alone? And you're sure he's okay with that?

I think this part was directed to someone else, but my guy definitely takes time to sort out his feelings. However, I always at MINIMUM get "I need alone time today" or "Not gonna be online, talk to you this weekend."
It's not that I'm sending him texts he's not answering, it's not that he's deleting me from social media, it's not that he's deliberately trying to make things dramatic. I think that's what was meant by "playing games."

I know this post is supposed to be sarcastic, but you have no idea how right you are. It's just how most men are. You can either accept it, or search for a man who isn't like that. They're probably rare, but I'm sure they exist.

This one, sorry, but I need to emphatically go with no. It's not how most men are, in my experience, and I hope that stays that way. It's how people claim men are to justify bad behavior.

The notion of the guy who "really does care! He's just scared of his feelings/can't show you his love/doesn't know how to handle how strongly he feels!" is bullshit when it becomes a pattern of behavior, especially if it happens regularly after, like, age 18.

Sure, there might be times when a particular situation or feeling or thought is overwhelming or scary or uncomfortable, and a person may not know how to handle it, and may take a step back or need some time, or whatever else. But part of being an adult in a loving, mutually supportive, mutually respectful relationship is that you treat your partner fairly and with courtesy. For many partners, that includes at least give them the courtesy of quick communication to say what's going on or that you need time, if that's something your partner needs. If it's not, if your partner is perfectly fine being ignored or doesn't need you to get in touch and is cool with you disappearing, that's a different story.

Mostly, if it's happening on a regular basis, the couple probably needs to look at their ultimate compatibility. It may be that the woman needs a more communicative partner, and thus the man resents what he sees as nagging or invasiveness.

Entirely too many women get hung up in this notion of some guy who really cares DEEPLY about her, he's just so scared of being close to her/scared of commitment/scared of his feelings, and THAT'S what makes him ignore her, or lie, or sleep around, or whatever the issue is. And she knows that when he gets stronger, and sees that she's been there, everything will be magical.

Does that happen once in awhile? Probably. But far more often it ends with the woman crying to her friends, who were like "dude, we've been telling you he's a douche and jerking you around for 6 months now." But the fantasy that there's some deeper issue is usually a fantasy, and lets him off the hook for acting the way he does. It excuses it and justifies it, and that's not a good thing, in my opinion.

I didn't really want to bring up the movie He's Just Not That Into You because it has its own problems and some stereotype reinforcement, etc. but it also has plenty of good, valid points, and illustrates just how swept up in that sort of thing we can get. And one of the main characters tells this girl, "if a guy wants to be with you, believe me, he will make it happen. If a guy is treating you like he doesn't give a shit, he GENUINELY doesn't give a shit."

[Moon]

I, for one, am incredibly glad this topic got derailed

I kind of think there's too much estrogen on this forum, so I welcome Luc's insight, regardless if I agree with him or not. While he isn't *the* male perspective, at least he's *a* male perspective, and we could use more of that, though everyone is different. And, to be honest, if my guy had the option to walk away for a while, rather than say something he'd regret later, I'd rather he walked.

[differentcountries]

So you think it's perfectly ok for somebody's SO to just plain ignore them with no explanation or reason why? There are times when my SO and I don't talk during the day. Either I'm in class or he's playing soccer. But I would never just ignore him. And the same goes for him. If I need time to get work done I'll let him know. It's just plain rude and inconsiderate not too.

No, it is not perfectly ok and it is much better to explain forhand and this should be the general rule. In a normal day this should not be a problem. Sometimes it can be understandable to not always give notice. Time management can get out of hand (I have seen for myself how Turkish visiting habits can be...people drop in at all hours and stay until late if they feel like it), phones/inernet somtimes don't work or a guy simply feel he does not know what to say. I know what it is like to be overwealmed, so I know it is not always easy to say or do the right thing - and I think this is often harder for guys who don't discuss feelings with their friends the way many girls do with theirs.

I can forgive my SO for not always being the perfect boyfriend, and he can feel understood when I say for him what he was not able to. He always apologize afterwords if I did not hear from him and I don't consider him rude at all, if he suspect in any way he hurt me that upsets him very much. If something went wrong, perhaps we need, as a couple, to make better rules - I can make better suggestions, especially when as his girlfriend I know he does not always have that much leverage in his own life. We are a team, so anything that goes wrong is on me too. The same goes for him; he had to forgive me when I did not give good notice for whatever reason, and work with me to find better solutions.

[itsjen516]

To be honest I don't even know what's going on in this tread anymore ?

[Ahava]

Wow! This thread has gotten long and check out the views!
I'm really glad there is no issue of ignoring in our relationship. We've never gone through a day without been in contact, at least via text if other options haven't been possible. Been LD there's a fair amount of alone time for both parties to think, process etc. Of course the cooling down after an argument etc is quite normal. You don't always have the possibility to sort things out there and then and might need to think about things alone for a bit.

My ex used to give me the silent treatment and ignore me when he was upset. Once it went for two weeks (we were living together with a child and second one on the way).

[Luc]

I think some of you are a little too quick to jump to conclusions about a man playing games with you. Most men in a relationship don't play games, that's something boys and women do. Men do play games, but entirely different kinds of games. The silent treatment in order to punish his beloved isn't a game that is in the repertoire of many men. I see women doing it often, but I rarely see mature grown-up men doing that.

When a man ignores you, or asks for space/distance, or simply doesn't reply to your messages, he is doing so because he feels he needs to do so. It's not because he is playing some kind of game with you. He is not trying to punish you or trying to make you feel bad. He's either running away from his problems (most likely explanation for the behavior of the OP), or trying to sort out his problems and fix them on his own terms. Once he sorted his problems out he will come back to you, apologize and try to work things out with you (I don't really see this happening with the OP and her SO though, I'm sorry to say).

[Hollandia]

The OP and her person of interest have never even spoken. It is a far cry from a women's beloved choosing to avoid her for a bit to spare her some ugly words while upset. Futhermore if you walk away in the heat of a moment to avoid saying something you can't regret, it is not something that is planned. If you are pissed enough, then sometimes you can't even get those words out and you have to just "hang up, or walk out of the room when in CD.

All men are not created the same but I find it interesting how many women think they know more about what men think than the actual man on the thread because they so their SO does this or that. I also don't hear the man trying to tell us women how we really feel and that just speaks mountains to me. I welcome the other men on the forum to come and give us more opinions on the matter, but really the women in this scenario are just assuming what men think because none of us are MEN.

[Luc]

The notion of the guy who "really does care! He's just scared of his feelings/can't show you his love/doesn't know how to handle how strongly he feels!" is bullshit when it becomes a pattern of behavior, especially if it happens regularly after, like, age 18.

That is your opinion, one that I, being a man myself, disagree with.

Most men are that way and it's not bullshit. Whether our behavior and how we deal with feelings is a biological thing or whether we are a product of nurture and our environment I don't know, but in most western societies, men are expected to be strong, immovable rocks that society and women can rely on, but deep inside men are really insecure and easily hurt, especially BECAUSE society expects us to be immovable rocks that people and our wives can rely on, it places a huge burden on us. When we don't express our feelings, it's because we are indeed too scared to do so. We are afraid to get hurt.

For that I actually greatly respect women. I feel that women are much stronger when it comes to dealing with emotions. When a woman is hurt, she will let you know. When a woman loves you, she will let you know. When a woman desires you, she will let you know. Most men I know aren't like that, we are too afraid to be rejected, too afraid to be hurt, too afraid to cause conflict and hurt ourselves and others.

Again, I don't know if this is a product of nature or a product of nurture, but it's how it is.

Mostly, if it's happening on a regular basis, the couple probably needs to look at their ultimate compatibility. It may be that the woman needs a more communicative partner, and thus the man resents what he sees as nagging or invasiveness.

It goes both ways, and I see this happen so often with people that seem like they are perfect for each other, yet they always run into the same problem; commutation. I sincerely believe that with a little work from both sides, a lot of people who seem incompatible might actually turn out to be very compatible.

There are ways to make a man communicate, to make him understand you and communicate on your level. I agree that communication is key, and regardless of my gender, I find communication in a relationship very important. It's just that I sometimes communicate in an entirely different way than my SO, which often causes misunderstandings, friction, arguments and ultimately fights. I think if we would all try a little harder to understand the opposite sex and more importantly, our own SO, we'll get so much further. Maybe you guys already communicate on a very deep and comfortable level.
Maybe you guys and your SO are already very far and successful in your relationship. Maybe you almost never have misunderstandings, arguments or fights. If that's the case then more power to you! But I'm sure many of us are far away from that stage. I know me and my SO have a long way to go when it comes to our communication, but that doesn't mean we're incompatible. It also doesn't mean that one of us is the blame. I'm not gonna point fingers at her and say "we have poor communication because of you", or blame myself and say "we have poor communication because of me". It's neither of that. It's just that she is an American woman and I'm a Dutch man, we are obviously different and we obviously need to learn a lot from each other and about each other, but we're getting there.

Does that happen once in awhile? Probably. But far more often it ends with the woman crying to her friends, who were like "dude, we've been telling you he's a douche and jerking you around for 6 months now." But the fantasy that there's some deeper issue is usually a fantasy, and lets him off the hook for acting the way he does. It excuses it and justifies it, and that's not a good thing, in my opinion.

And so you're putting the blame entirely on the man in this particular example. Which in my opinion is very unfair. There are always two sides of a story. Yes, some men are just plain egocentric childish douchebags, just like some women are egocentric childish bitches, but more often than not there IS very much a deeper issue going on. Does this deeper issue justify any bad behavior? No, absolutely not. But if you look past the obvious and try to understand the opposite gender and your SO, especially in bad situations, you'll see that it's never that simple and that there is almost always a hidden reason for why a person acts the way he/she acts.

"if a guy wants to be with you, believe me, he will make it happen. If a guy is treating you like he doesn't give a shit, he GENUINELY doesn't give a shit."

Which I can already tell you is not true. It might be true, sometimes, but very often it's not.

Again, not saying that a man treating a woman like he doesn't give a shit is a good thing, nor do I try to justify such behavior. I'm just saying that when a man acts that way, it doesn't always mean he also feels that way.

[itsjen516]

Maybe taylor swift can write a song about this