She is hiding and keeping secrets

[dummy56]

@Miramaid: She is a big club person. I am afraid that she would not say she has a bf. I feel like she needs to be chatted up a bit by a hot guy and then she'd be able to cheat. The thing is, she has a history of cheating. If she loses interest and becomes unhappy, she cheats. The guy just has to say the right stuff. She tells me about how she doesn't do anything in the club and doesn't plan to meet anyone but I know when guys are in the club they are looking for something. But I guess you're right. We just have to enjoy each other. I feel that is has become more of a chore for her or at least something she doesn't want to do all the time. I remember when she would plan things around when I was free so we can maximize the time we talked. Nowadays, she practically plans things when I am free minimizing how much we can talk. In the chat she never mentions that she is not single. She merely says she just isn't looking for anything. And she tells me that too. She isn't looking for anyone. Not that because she has me. To be honest, I don't think she even regards this thing as a real relationship. I try to talk to her but my mind is just flooding with negative thoughts. I do talk to a counselor, but I guess my counselor sucks. You know sometimes when you talk to someone and it feels like they're not interested? There is no enthusiasm and very short answers and don't contribute? Well that's how it is most of the time. We often fill the dead air with little phrases like "my baby.." etc.. I should just focus on that visit. That visit must happen and it will happen. I can only hope for the best for everything that happens in between..

[Haley53]

Honestly, I would want to have these issues sorted (or at least get started) before I went to visit whom I was experiencing the issues with, put simply, because a visit's not going to solve anything. Sure, it may revive the butterflies, but it's only going to be temporary, and the butterflies aren't going to be a solvant for the underlying issues; the butterflies may not even matter, if you haven't worked anything out by the time that you arrive. And this is coming from someone who did try to solve her situation (with an ex) with a very expensive three-week visit that really only confirmed what I hadn't wanted to accept. Although I don't believe you're completely hopeless, I do feel that you both have to consider whether or not this relationship is worth it to fix.

The thing is that for as much as it takes only one person to break something, it takes two to fix it. She needs to be as willing to put in as much hard effort as you do, or it's not going to work and you both are holding onto something that's not going to last. Your visit isn't going to be a fairytale if you don't start working on rebuilding the foundation of your relationship, and in the off-chance it were, it's not going to end happily ever after, as much as it might seem it. Which is why I suggested confronting her. You both need to sit down and actually talk about where you stand and what's wrong with the relationship etc., and you both need to figure out an action plan. Otherwise, you're both holding on to the threads of something because one or both of you is scared of letting go, and that's not fair on either party.

I can see where you'd be concerned about her history of cheating. I could never date anyone who had ever cheated, personally speaking, but I believe there are even some people on LFAD who have cheated on their previous partners and never cheated again, so despite my extremist opinions, I suppose it's not entirely improbable that she wouldn't dream of cheating on you too. The thing is that you really are going to need to work on your thoughts and your perspective, not simply on hiding/keeping them from her, but on actually changing them. If your counselor is not working for you, ask for a referral to someone else, or be more expressive/open about what problems you're facing, say you're stuck with how to work on them and cope with them, and you'd like help. If you've done that, and they haven't been able to help, you have two options. Either the counselor isn't a fit, and you should switch to someone else, or you're closed off to doing the work needed to change/correct your thoughts and you need to figure out why before you proceed. But either way, I do think you need to sit her down and talk to her and have an open and honest discussion about what flaws you see within the relationship and how you can fix it. You are both going to need to put in a significant amount of effort. It's not hopeless, but it's not going to be easy and you both need to be willing before anything is going to improve.

[dummy56]

@Eclaire: She just wants to enjoy life and meet new people for fun. It bothers me because I am so insecure and I just think that for her, why bother with an LDR? She can find someone who can sweet talk her/better looking/great/etc in her city. We've talked about it and her story seems pretty reasonable in that she just wants to live life and not be tied down to a computer to talk to me. So how can I argue with me? Here I am just uncomfortable with the idea that she is meeting strangers online and lying to me to talk to them. She does this because she doesn't want to hurt my feelings. Again, it all goes back to me. So I am going to try to get this to work on my end.

Now women, I must ask, would you be able to go onto a chat and meet locals/exchange pics/skype/etc and still be loyal/faithful to your SO without telling him? - Basically would it be reasonable to do that without the possibility of cheating/etc?

[Haley53]

As someone who has met men and women through Craigslist and has spoken to people through other social networking sites (though not so much anymore. I haven't socially networked via a site/Craigslist in over two years) and who has met and made male and female friends and acquaintences at university, yes, it's entirely possible. I'm an extremely loyal person and having friends of the opposite sex doesn't automatically change that. I've dealt with men who could be considered good looking hitting on me as well, and I've never once faltered or been tempted to deal with their advances in any other way with a diplomatic, though sometimes downright sharp, depending on what their proposal was to begin with, verbal slap. With people I've met online, I've exchanged pictures, yes, and I've spoken on the phone and met them in public places to confirm who they really are. It has never crossed my mind that any of it would be more than platonic. However, I wouldn't keep anything from my partner. Never have, never will.

[dummy56]

@Eclaire: It is interesting that you say you were able to do all those things without even considering the possibility of just cheating or doing anything bad. It does give me a bit of hope that it is possible to just meet other male strangers even if they are great/good looking/etc to still not cheat. But you are right, she shouldn't hide something like that unless something was going to happen. So I must ask you, if she hides it so we don't have an argument over it, would it still be possible to do all that without the thought of cheating? Even after I annoyed the hell out of her? The women here seem to be very loyal and open in communication, I guess I screwed this one up.

[Haley53]

Yes again. My father tried to control and isolate my mother. I was not aware she was hiding a male friend from him or the fact that he'd tried to kiss her, to which she'd responded by going home immediately and later talking with him about it and why it had been wrong. I mentioned it at one point to my father and my mother was sent to the hospital that night because she'd "fallen." With how angry my father was, I don't believe that story for a minute for a minute. However, my mother has the same streak of loyalty that I do, and she did have to keep even her outings with her female friends somewhat hidden from my father based on his reactions. So yes, I think it's possible when that seems like the last resort/the only thing that will keep a dying relationship from crumbling to pieces. Though I will say that it can as easily mean someone's cheating or not being faithful and loyal, I do think that sometimes one's reactions to certain pieces of information can govern the reasons their partner decides to start hiding things from them.

[ChibiFelicia]

Now women, I must ask, would you be able to go onto a chat and meet locals/exchange pics/skype/etc and still be loyal/faithful to your SO without telling him? - Basically would it be reasonable to do that without the possibility of cheating/etc?

I really dont get why you are so caught on the fact that being friends/making new friends of the opposite sex = being unfaithful/leading to thought sof cheating etc etc

I would never cheat and if i ever had a thought of liking someone else there'd be a very serious conversation between my man and i. Most of my friends are male, the people i know online are male and yes they have my skype, my FB and of course have seen my photo andi've seen theirs. I really dont think you need to be asking us women how we would be in a certain situation. It really depends on the ppl involved i.e you and your girl. As said before by other posters and by yourself you have insecurities but if you keep thinking about it, it'll make it worse (i guess a bit of an assumption here, but from my own experience thats how it's been).

A relationship is built on trust. If theres no trust, it'll end up being difficult for both parties.

Im jsut re reading the above posts as i write this (been reading your thread since you started it) - thing about the club going...i personally stopped going to clubs as soon as i got serious. I personally dont feel they are appropiate anymore (1, cause i dont drink much anymore and 2 because im not looking to hook up anymore) that being said i have girlfriends/boyfriends who go to clubs just to have fun with their friends. It is possible for ppl to go to these places and not hook up with ppl.

I really feel you need to chill out and stand back from the situation. Calm down and write things down (find it helps me when i want to get things off my chest and not to say things i'll regret) and then talk to her.

[dummy56]

@Eclaire, I'm sorry to hear about your mother. My reaction is rather just jealousy and unhappiness, like a child's tantrum. I really hope that is the reason why she is hiding things from me and not because she is going to cheat or something.

@ChibiFelicia: The reason why befriending guys online bothers me is because I believe it leads to a potential relationship. Sure there may be no attraction in the beginning but then after talking and realizing how great the guy is, why wouldn't there be an attraction? Unless there are superficial or really bad past reasons, I don't see why wouldn't it become something. That's exactly what happened to us. Ours was just talking and eventually it led to something. So I know that she is capable of developing these attractions through conversation and time and such. Now imagine it with people in her area, it's even easier to cheat/meet and even become closer to these people. I understand she doesn't have to hook up in the club, but I mean just the area is conducive for wild behavior. Some guy may say the right things and bam, she can be cheating. It really falls on her, but I just don't know if she'd be so strong, especially with me complaining about anything.

To be honest, I almost feel that if she were here with me, I wouldn't be so bad. It's just that she's far away so it's just so easy to cheat and anything. We had talked for a bit today and it's late for her but I can feel that she forces herself to put in some time for me. I don't know if she wants to, but I guess she feels guilty about it. I thought we could have a little "date" the next date at a rather early time and she was just uneasy about it because she didn't want to spend so much time on the computer. To be honest, I think she'd be on the computer anyway probably talking to other people. I do write things down and I see how depressing it is. Also if I did sort of relax about everything. I think it would be naive to think nothing possibly could happen or something. But I guess in the end, what difference does it make. At least if I lay off of her, she wouldn't be upset/annoyed/pissed around me..

[Mara]

Am I the only one that thinks this woman is in the wrong?

Listen, you seem like a really nice guy, albeit, you obviously have insecurity and jealousy issues, however, that does not justify in any way, shape, or form her lying to you. What you are trying to do is sweep this all under the rug; that's not going to work.

Honestly, unless you are wrong about her lying to you about all of these things [not quite sure how you got the information] your relationship is virtually over.

I know you love her and you just want things to go back to the way they were, but I'm sorry to say it seems the damage has already been done and cannot be repaired.

[Haley53]

@Mara -- No. I wouldn't say she's entirely in the clear. I simply don't think that she should automatically be accused of cheating or bear all the blame when the OP has admitted to being controlling, has admitted to his issues and insecurities, and has admitted to handling things wrongly in the past.

@OP -- Personally, I disagree. Whereas yes, talking is how you ultimately form romantic connections, you also form platonic connections, professional connections, etc. through the same mode: talking. And being honest, there's as much of a chance of it happening in person as online. I think that's one of my bigger pet peeves. If someone cheats, it's not down to the distance, but rather it's down to the relationship, and when it's down to the relationship, though it's easier to cheat long-distance, it likely would have happened close-distance as well. The distance also has nothing to do with your insecurities. Being close-distance would make it easier to mask those insecurities because you could keep closer tabs on her while having her physical reassurance; it would not make them go away, and they would surface at some point or another.

Would it be possible to take a break from her/your relationship? You yourself said you aren't sure if she sees this as a serious relationship. My question is should that not have been defined before three years in?

[dummy56]

@Mara: She is lying. We've talked and we had said that she finds white lies to be harmless and okay (even though I disagreed). So I feel that she finds this to be a white lie, telling me that she is sleeping so she can chat which she claims will lead to nothing. I caused her to lie to me. I reacted badly in the past. I mean I didn't yell scream and stuff about it. I merely talked about how it bothered me, and I would talk about it nonstop as in asking if she was going to go talk to this guy or whatever. I guess she got annoyed with that and decided to lie to keep me from doing that again.

@Eclaire: I feel that even platonic connections can become something unless there really was a reason that it can't happen. As an example, if you work with the person you probably can't do anything about it, or any other kind of professional boundary. Otherwise, everything is sort of fair game. I mean why deny yourself a possible partner that is just perfect/great? It could be that he is the one you've been looking for all your life but never found and instead settled for someone like me. With long distance, she can go ahead and do whatever without me knowing. But of course it depends on the relationship but I think it just depends on what the person wants. Everyone here said I should I just talk to her, but I can't talk to her because she simply wouldn't tell me and it really is annoying for her to listen to me and my insecurities everyday. If I ask her what she wanted, she'll say, "oh I want you of course and no one else." Suppose it's true, then I'm sort of a placeholder until something better comes along. Isn't that the thing about marriage? You find the person that is perfect for you, the best. All these young relationships in your teens/20s/etc were merely to placeholders. (I know it's a real negative way to look at it, but I think its pretty true). I mean with the physical closeness, I can perhaps go to a club with her so she can go have her fun and I'll be there so I know she won't be screwing around.

It really does seem like she wants to just sweep everything under the rug and just move on. We've talked too much about these problems and no matter how much she assures me that nothing can/will happen, I just can't seem to believe that because honestly, no one can promise that. I don't know about a break because I don't know what I'd do without her. She is such a big part of my life and day. I mean in the beginning days, she thought of it as sort of a fling and recognizes that it probably will go nowhere. We decided that we don't want to think about those things but rather focus on the good things to come, like our meeting and all the times we can spend together. I really feel that she believes she owes it to herself to be able to go out and have all this wild fun. So in her eyes, cheating would be justified in the sense that I can't be hurt because I won't know and she will be satisfied. I'm not saying she is doing this, this is all speculation.

[Malaga]

I agree with you Mara. The fact OP is here seeking advice, being honest about his jealousy issues and taking over responsibility for his share of the blame shows that he wants to make things right. He wants to open dialogue. He doesn't strike me as a person with abusive tendencies. If anything, he seems like an anxious/clingy type who isn't getting the reassurance he needs, so he immediately thinks of the worst case scenario. With anxious types though, as soon as they get the reassurance they need, their anxiety calms down.

She may not be cheating but she's not acting in a trustworthy way. If her attitude on lying is as the OP says, would any of us be inclined to trust her word? She seems to have found a convenient way to do what she wants to (which may be innocent but the way she goes about it is not) and avoid the hassle of confrontation. Who benefits from this situation? She does, not the OP.

[dummy56]

@Malaga: You are right in that she is really benefiting from all this. But I pushed her this way so if only I didn't go all crazy in the beginning, maybe things would be different. I agree if I did get the reassurance, I would have calmed down. It was just that she seemed to have lost interest so I thought she was bored and would keep asking how was she and things like that. Then when she seemed better, she was chatting and talking to other people, so I got all suspicious and stuff. I mean it's basically saying I am not interesting or good for her so she seeks the good things elsewhere. I'm basically getting slowly replaced by one of those local guys.

Let's assume she means well and really does love me and doesn't plan to do anything bad like cheat. Is this possibility so unlikely? I mean she lies that she sleeps to talk to these people. She basically limits me in the amount of time I spend with her. I can see that she tries to put enough hours with me so that it's like she wanted to spend time with me. I commented on this and so now she spends more time with me and I tell her if she wants to sleep she can, and she simply says that she prefers to stay even though she looks bored and tired. But even so she goes to the chat! Anyway, let's pretend she doesn't intend to do anything bad. What can I do? Wouldn't all of her behavior (excluding the lying part) seem rather reasonable and normal? I don't know how to view this situation. I can't believe a word she says like if she really does want to talk to me or to even loves me. I mean shouldn't I be alarmed when it is midnight her time and I see her yawning looking bored, I tell her to sleep and she says, "naaa I came on late, I'll sleep later" ?? I think those are just subtle hints for "I rather go to sleep but I know you'll hate that I stayed for such a short time so I'll stay for a decent amount of time before I leave." Maybe I am being paranoid or looking into it too much but how else can I look at it?

[NineInchNails_x]

I think the only reason this should be a problem is if she is using money to go visit other people when she should be visiting you instead. I mean, it's been three years, and it's not fair to you that she is visiting friends in another country but she isn't visiting you.
Otherwise, it's okay for her to have guy friends. It's okay for her to chat with people. I think she hides things from youbecause she doesn't want to hurt you because she knows that if she told you she wanted to get offline with you to talk to someone else it would upset you. You said you're insecure, and if she really told you that she wanted to do something else, she probably knew you'd over analyze it so she is avoiding the situation. Don't worry so much! She loves you, obviously. She has been in a LDR with you for 3 years and that's not really something you do for fun because LDRs can be torture sometimes. Just ask her to be honest with you and promise her that you won't judge and you'll back her up no matter what, and that you won't flip out if you don't agree with her plans (:

[Zapookie]

I'm just going to say as well... I used to chat a lot to random people online. And that in fact is how I met my SO as well. Once we became a couple though, all of the chatting online to others stopped. It stopped because I didn't need that stimulation from anyone else, because I got it from my SO. And also, I knew that talking to other people online can lead to more as it did in my case, hence why I stopped. I had people trying to wiggle their way into my life and try to make advances at me but I had to put an end to it so I blocked/deleted them.

Look at it this way. If she really did love you, she wouldn't be acting the way she is.

From what you've explained, it just seems like she's showing a total lack of respect for you as her partner (if she even refers to you as her partner?). I just don't understand why you'd put up with this behaviour.

If this was switched around, and you were a female posting on here saying her boyfriend has been lying to her and telling her he was going to bed when in fact he stayed up later to chat to people, was organising meetups with said people, and that he was going clubbing all the time and doesn't tell people he's single.... we'd all be telling that girl to break up with him because she deserves better. Right?

I don't think it should be any different. You deserve a partner who is going to show you love and respect and be open in communicating with you. To me, I feel that you two are incompatible. She doesn't seem like she wants to be in a relationship. She lies, she has cheated before. You on the other hand want to make this work and are devoting so much time and effort into trying to fix this, but she isn't trying. For this to work, you both have to want it. And she says she wants you, but her actions are saying otherwise.

There is no trust, and any time you try and talk about it she lies again. I'm sorry to be blunt but why do you want to be in a relationship with someone who is only half-assing it? I know you've spent 3 years devoted to her.. and that is a long time, but you guys haven't met yet. I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but if you were to break it off, you'd probably be saving yourself a lot of heartache and money that you would have otherwise spent on a trip which may, or may not, have turned out well depending on whether this issue was resolved.

I think what you can try if you don't want to be up her butt all the time about this, is to minimise contact from YOUR end and see how she reacts. If she doesn't really care that you two haven't been talking much.. well you have your answer. I don't really agree with testing your partner, but this IMO is an extreme circumstance for which it calls.